Wheel question. 48 to 36 spoke and then convert from 16" to 18", rear

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So i have an 83' heritage special with a 48 spoke rear wheel. i have the hub, brakes, etc. everything for the rear, still on the bike

I also have an unknown year 16" 36 spoke rim, with no brake parts, just the wheel, hub and spokes.

If possible, can i either re-lace the 48 spoke hub to 36 and run an 18" rim and spoke kit from mikesXS to convert the rear wheel to a 36 spoke 18" rear.

OR

can i convert the 36 spoke 16" rear to an 18" using mikesXS kit, and use my 83' brake parts on the 36 spoke hub....?

This is also going into a TC bros hardtail. can i re-use the stock spacers, and if so, for which hub?

I searched through 20 pages of stuff, and cant find an awnser, any help would be appriciated. thanks all
 
You can use the HS brake hub/plate/parts on the 36 spoke wheel I believe.
Have you seen the ad in the shops section about wheel building?
He may help you.
 
Last edited:
You can't use the 48 spoke hub with a 36 hole rim, simple math should tell you that. You can convert the 36 spoke 16" wheel to 18" with the 36 spoke kit from Mike's. All your 48 spoke wheel parts will swap (spacers, brake, etc.).
 
If you want 36 spokes in the rear instead of 48, you're gonna hafta use a 36-hole, 18" rim and 36-hole hub. Brake parts from your 48-hole hub should swap into your 36-hole hub.
 
ok, next question.... to those who have done this, what are the part numbers im looking for? will mikesXS know if i tell them what im doing? or anyone who's done this before... what are they? thanks
 
OK OK OK - I am trying to spoke the 48-hole MikesXS 18" rim onto my Heritage Special 48-hole hub and I have now had this ding-danged thing apart and together and apart again about four or five times. Thanks goodness for the corona virus - since I have nothing else to do right now.

Let me say that I am not a spoking expert - BUT - I have spoked wheels before and in doing this job, I have discovered the following:
  • there are inner spokes and outer spokes (which is true of any spoked wheel I believe);
  • there TWO different lengths of inner spokes and TWO different lengths of outer spokes;
  • the short inner spokes and the same length as the short outer spokes and the long inners and long outers are also the same - so it would appear that the pattern mimics the original 16" spoke pattern which has repeated eight spoke groupings (see the photos below);
  • there several different ways of lacing this wheel incorrectly - and I have found them - I hope ALL of them.
I have photos of the original 16" wheel showing the spoke pattern (see below) and I get that. I have tried to replicate it but it seems to come out that some spokes are much too long and others are much too short - and again, I have tried it several different ways.
Here are my questions:
  1. has anyone ever actually laced this wheel correctly?
  2. what lacing pattern did you use?
  3. would you PLEASE post a photo of your wheel for me so that I can replicate your pattern.
I know that some people do not like the 48 spoke wheels - but I do - and so I don't want to have that debate here.

Pete
(confounded in Canada)

IMG_0761.jpg

IMG_0759.jpg
 
I've never done a 48 or 64 spoke Heritage wheel but I can tell you some key points I've discovered when doing normal 36 spoke wheels. First, you must install all the inners on both sides. If you go along putting both inner and outer spokes in at the same time, you won't get the last couple spokes in. Second, I start with the spokes on both sides of the valve stem hole. Get them right and the rest usually seem to fall into place correctly.
 
MaxPete said:
OK OK OK - I am trying to spoke the 48-hole MikesXS 18" rim onto my Heritage Special 48-hole hub and I have now had this ding-danged thing apart and together and apart again about four or five times. Thanks goodness for the corona virus - since I have nothing else to do right now.

Let me say that I am not a spoking expert - BUT - I have spoked wheels before and in doing this job, I have discovered the following:
  • there are inner spokes and outer spokes (which is true of any spoked wheel I believe);
  • there TWO different lengths of inner spokes and TWO different lengths of outer spokes;
  • the short inner spokes and the same length as the short outer spokes and the long inners and long outers are also the same - so it would appear that the pattern mimics the original 16" spoke pattern which has repeated eight spoke groupings (see the photos below);
  • there several different ways of lacing this wheel incorrectly - and I have found them - I hope ALL of them.
I have photos of the original 16" wheel showing the spoke pattern (see below) and I get that. I have tried to replicate it but it seems to come out that some spokes are much too long and others are much too short - and again, I have tried it several different ways.
Here are my questions:
  1. has anyone ever actually laced this wheel correctly?
  2. what lacing pattern did you use?
  3. would you PLEASE post a photo of your wheel for me so that I can replicate your pattern.
  4. I know that some people do not like the 48 spoke wheels - but I do - and so I don't want to have that debate here.
  5. Pete(confounded in Canada)View attachment 162191View attachment 162192
Click to expand...
Dear confounded in Canada,
be grateful that you have a puzzle to solve and a heated workspace to solve it in during your self-distancing.
Meanwhile I'm self-distanced here in our Saskatoon home with my Heritage Special with it's 7-spoke artillery wheels and it's sidecar's ex-Toyota car wheel frozen solid in my unheated garage.
Today's big adventure will be to drag our garbage can to the kerb for tomorrow's pickup.
Last Saturday's big adventure was a trip to the supermarket where everyone and his idiot cousin was buying toilet paper by the cartful.
WTF??? Is toilet paper imported from China? Don't most folks get a newspaper that could be re-purposed at need?
 
Dear Confounded,

regarding your question "has anyone ever actually laced this wheel correctly?", YES, but I cheated and passed the job to a professional :D

I bought the alloy replacement rims from Mikes plus the stainless spokes, and the guy who built the wheels for me (a veteran of hundreds of wheel builds) said he was impressed with the quality of the XS Performance stuff and didn't have to grind the top off a single spoke, they were all the exact correct length. Mikes can get some bad press in these pages, but I must give credit where it's due and it was in this case.

Hopefully this pic will help - it's the old rim before being rebuilt, but the spoke pattern is the same:
20180107_153305.jpg


FWIW, I think the way to go is inners first then outers but you probably already know that. Let me know if you want some detailed pics of my wheels.

Good luck!
Cliff
 
Confounded, I just read your text a bit more carefully. I think the bottom line is that the original spoke pattern is OK if your spoke set matches. Could that be be the problem? I'll go and take a pic or two ....
 
NIGHTHOG - thanks SO much. I will give it another go. With so many spokes, you only have to make one mistake (and I certainly have on each of the previous tries) for the whole job to mess up.

....and FWIW, I agree about MikesXS / XS650 Direct. They get a lot of bad press, some of which they deserve but I still maintain that we are fortunate to have a reasonably well stocked seller of, mostly, reasonable spare parts.

FRED: my garage is not heated and it is actually fairly danged cold out there.

I’m goin’ in!!

Pete
 
If you have power in your Garage, one of those portable oil filled electric heaters work very well.
Where I lived before I got this place was a spare room added to the side of a house trailer. One of these type heaters worked very well. It kept the room warm and with the oil holding and radiating the heat it stayed an even temp.
On your lacing job, good luck. The last one I did was the rear on the Harley. It was a 40 spoke. The way the hub is made all the spokes are the same, no inners and outers. The hub had the flange horizontal instead of vertical.
It was a bit frustrating at first. After a few hours of just making things worse, I loosened all the spokes and came back the next day and in about half an hour it was very near perfect. I think I was trying to hard at first.
Leo
 
Sorry for the duplicate post - I have switched this saga over to my build thread “Special to Café Build”.

I guess I was getting punchy and simply tacked my bitching onto this old thread.

Pete
 
MaxPete said:
AH HAH - maybe THIS have been my mistake.

Hold my beer, I wanna try something.
Pete
Click to expand...
I think Nighthog has given you the info but if not giver me a shout as I have at least one pair of those rims out in the barn and could send some pictures. As far as I know these are stock and never been apart but are a bit rusty and dirty!
 
Yes it is possible if the drum brake from the 48 spoke hub fits the 36 spoke hub. You will just need a 18" rim and rear spoke kit. I am willing to bet that it is cheaper to just buy a complete used 18" xs650 rim. That is what I did for the rear rim, but ended up buying two because I didn't like the rims channel on the first one. Just research the year and rim design so you can match front rims. I am going to do a how to thread soon on installing a 18" front rim.
 

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