Here's a link that illustrates the dot alignment a little more clearly .....
http://650motorcycles.com/assembly1.html
http://650motorcycles.com/assembly1.html
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
WOT feels like it comes out of gear,Help!
- Thread starter TRYGAR
- Start date
-
- Tags
- carburetors clutch engine
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
I opened up my right side case and yes, it looks like I did in fact line up the dot. Now I'm stumped, all my gears were switching fine before I changed my springs. When I squeeze my clutch lever, it looks like all the friction plates move away together, is that how it should be operating?
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
With bike off, not using the clutch lever, neutral is easy to find, first gear seems to click in solid, rock it back and forth, 2nd sounds like it drops in BUT it doesn't click in until I roll forward a bit, then it clicks in, same the thing for the rest of the gears. What could I have screwed up? When I was trying to break my clutch spring screws free I think I rotated the whole clutch (basket?) a little bit, could this have thrown my gears outta whack?
well it doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the gear selection components which is good. I guess that leaves the clutch.
When you select first gear with the engine running and the clutch lever pulled does the bike try to move forward at all? does it bite ?
If the clutch works ok with first gear I'm guessing that it should work the same with all the other gears I should have thought.
Now you've got this far you might as well strip the clutch and check and clean all the plates. If there is plenty of material on the plates I've read it pays to very lightly sand the clutch surfaces . Check that none of the plates show signs of binding anywhere.etc
When you select first gear with the engine running and the clutch lever pulled does the bike try to move forward at all? does it bite ?
If the clutch works ok with first gear I'm guessing that it should work the same with all the other gears I should have thought.
Now you've got this far you might as well strip the clutch and check and clean all the plates. If there is plenty of material on the plates I've read it pays to very lightly sand the clutch surfaces . Check that none of the plates show signs of binding anywhere.etc
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
I just reassembled the right side case after making sure that the dot was lined up. Now it doesn't seem to walk me forward in first gear anymore when I have the clutch lever pulled in. I took it for a spin hoping that everything was good now that it wasn't doing exactly what it was doing before but unfortunately it still won't shift gears smoothly, it gets stuck in what ever gear I'm in, I kick the shifter and kick some more and then it finally switches into the next gear.
I took some videos and some pics ill try and post links to me soon. Tonight I'm gonna try to lightly sand the plates to see if that helps. It looked like some of the plates had some rust looking spots on em.
I took some videos and some pics ill try and post links to me soon. Tonight I'm gonna try to lightly sand the plates to see if that helps. It looked like some of the plates had some rust looking spots on em.
well it sounds like a small improvement in the clutch operation anyway if the bikes not creeping forward in 1st gear with the clutch right in.
It sounds like you are on the right track.
I would try get hold of a micrometer and measure the plates to see if they are within spec. There is bound to be a tech guide in the technical section somewhere.
sounds to me like you need to reset the clutch adjustment from scratch
found this in the tech section under clutch
Friction plate thickness: 3.0 mm (0.118")
wear limit: 2.7 mm (0.106")
warp limit: .05 mm (0.002")
It sounds like you are on the right track.
I would try get hold of a micrometer and measure the plates to see if they are within spec. There is bound to be a tech guide in the technical section somewhere.
sounds to me like you need to reset the clutch adjustment from scratch
found this in the tech section under clutch
Friction plate thickness: 3.0 mm (0.118")
wear limit: 2.7 mm (0.106")
warp limit: .05 mm (0.002")
Last edited:
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
Can you tell me if this looks right?
Below is a video of clutch in operation, are the plates supposed to move like that?
Below is a video of clutch in operation, are the plates supposed to move like that?
Tim of DO THE TON
XS650 Junkie
Yes. The plates are stuck together by the oil's surface tension. But they'll spin freely under power. Looks good to me.
Tim of DO THE TON
XS650 Junkie
FWIW I think my clutch was slipping last weekend at Barber. We had the opportunity to open them up a bit, and at 113MPH indicated, my RPM was north of 8000. I'm running the 24t 5th gear with 17/34 sprockets and should have been around 7500 based on the Pamcopete XS650 rev spreadsheet.
Might look at heavier springs. It's got Ferodo racing friction plates in it already.
Might look at heavier springs. It's got Ferodo racing friction plates in it already.
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
Well it looks like after closer review, my plastic piece in my worm gear is cracked. I'm really hoping its as simple as replacing my worm gear assembly to fix this problem of non smooth shifts.
I'll keep you guys posted
I'll keep you guys posted
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
The metal piece and the plastic parts thread together, so trying to replace the plastic part with a washer won't work.
Some have suggested getting a metal paret instead of a plastic part. This would be stronger but being stronger something esle might break instead of a rather inexpencive plastic part. Thing like housings, caseings, clutch hubs , baskets.
I think the plastic part makes sense.
On the smooth shifts that is mostly clutch adjustments. If the clutch drags to much this puts pressure on the engagement dogs and slots on the gears. These dogs and slots have a slight gtaper on them to pull them into a tight engagement. When you pull in the clutch, this releaves this pressure so the dogs can disengage from the slots so they can shift to the next gear
One thing you can try is get the bike going. Rev up to the point you will shift at. Now apply pressure to the shifter. Now as you are appling this pressure quickly back off the throttle. It should pop right into the next gear. Reapply throttle.
In this test when you back off the throttle this releases the pressure on the dogs and slots so the gears can move.
If you can shift it easily this way then your clutch needs adjustment.
Leo
Some have suggested getting a metal paret instead of a plastic part. This would be stronger but being stronger something esle might break instead of a rather inexpencive plastic part. Thing like housings, caseings, clutch hubs , baskets.
I think the plastic part makes sense.
On the smooth shifts that is mostly clutch adjustments. If the clutch drags to much this puts pressure on the engagement dogs and slots on the gears. These dogs and slots have a slight gtaper on them to pull them into a tight engagement. When you pull in the clutch, this releaves this pressure so the dogs can disengage from the slots so they can shift to the next gear
One thing you can try is get the bike going. Rev up to the point you will shift at. Now apply pressure to the shifter. Now as you are appling this pressure quickly back off the throttle. It should pop right into the next gear. Reapply throttle.
In this test when you back off the throttle this releases the pressure on the dogs and slots so the gears can move.
If you can shift it easily this way then your clutch needs adjustment.
Leo
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
Well upon further inspection in looks like the plastic peice is NOT cracked or broken in any way. So now I'm back to the drawing board. I'll try leo's test on the jump shift using NO clutch pull; I think I've already done that test and it seems I CAN in fact jump shift gears somewhat easily; problem is that I adjusted my clutch a million times (extremely loose to extremely tight, and everywhere in between) with no luck.
Could it be possible that the Synthetic oil im now running is cause this?
I'm also going to check my "star" peice alignment to make sure it's properly centered. Does anyone have a good way to hold the clutch basket steady so I can release the center nut (without buying the tool on mikesxs?
Could it be possible that the Synthetic oil im now running is cause this?
I'm also going to check my "star" peice alignment to make sure it's properly centered. Does anyone have a good way to hold the clutch basket steady so I can release the center nut (without buying the tool on mikesxs?
I doubt the synth oil is the problem.
I use my hand to hold the hub and use my electric impact wrench to turn the nut.
An air impact will work to.
There are several ways to hold the clutch hub to remove the nut.
You might try reading the thread on homemade tools, links in thre TECH section.
Try searching for clutch hub nut removal, worth a shot.
Leo
I use my hand to hold the hub and use my electric impact wrench to turn the nut.
An air impact will work to.
There are several ways to hold the clutch hub to remove the nut.
You might try reading the thread on homemade tools, links in thre TECH section.
Try searching for clutch hub nut removal, worth a shot.
Leo
TRYGAR
XS650 Enthusiast
Well, The shifting issue has worked itself out, I dont know how I fixed it other than just taking the right side case off a few different times. it was still pretty finicky to shift but it has slowly gotten better.
Even with the new vesrah clutch springs, it still feels like at wide open throttle it's coming out of gear.
So now Im thinking that it may be possibly a carb jetting problem. I had a pretty big main jet in there, I've now gone back to my stock main jet, I'll keep you posted on this progress next time I run it
Even with the new vesrah clutch springs, it still feels like at wide open throttle it's coming out of gear.
So now Im thinking that it may be possibly a carb jetting problem. I had a pretty big main jet in there, I've now gone back to my stock main jet, I'll keep you posted on this progress next time I run it
