xs performance stainless exhaust w/out torque optimizers

[hks650]

since i can't really find the exhaust i want. i'm to purchase the SS exhaust headpipes from mikes but do i need the torque optimizers? I ask b/c the optimizers are actually sold out so i'll have to wait but i really need a exhaust. ill eventually buy it down the road when it becomes available again.

has anyone here feel any dramatic loss of low end torque without opt's running the stainless exhaust??

 

[5twins]

You might be able to make some out of the ends of your old stock headpipes if you still have them .....

 

[hks650]

i'll check them this weekend. if they're still in there/or if the original didn't mess with it. but yes i searched and came across that thread with that picture and will keep that in mind.

 

[C-Los SD]

650 Central has some, they cost a bit more but Mike Morse recommends they be used for the 1.75 inch pipe.

 

[grizld1]

The XSPerformance pipe is 1-3/4". 5twins, inserts at the exhaust ports will improve velocity and impede reversion, but they won't put the torque peak delivered by an oversized pipe back in a usable rpm range. What's needed for that is reducers (Michael Morse at 650 Central calls them Torque Peak Optimizers) in the other end of the pipe.

hks650, the XSPerformance pipes don't work as well as they could with the TPO's due to the upkick at the end; the bend is right up against the tapered inlet of the TPO--not the best thing for flow. As an option, have a look at the stainless 2-2 pipes offered by Hoos Racing: www.hoosracing.com .

 

[hks650]

650 Central has some, they cost a bit more but Mike Morse recommends they be used for the 1.75 inch pipe.

thanks, i just found them. i might try making my own first and thats if they're still there.

The XSPerformance pipe is 1-3/4". 5twins, inserts at the exhaust ports will improve velocity and impede reversion, but they won't put the torque peak delivered by an oversized pipe back in a usable rpm range. What's needed for that is reducers (Michael Morse at 650 Central calls them Torque Peak Optimizers) in the other end of the pipe.
i kind of knew that it was not required. i actually don't mind a little loss of end torque.

hks650, the XSPerformance pipes don't work as well as they could with the TPO's due to the upkick at the end; the bend is right up against the tapered inlet of the TPO--not the best thing for flow. As an option, have a look at the stainless 2-2 pipes offered by Hoos Racing: www.hoosracing.com .

thanks i just shot them an email. do u run their pipes? their street tracker pipes looks almost similar but no upkick at the end. with their pipes, one would need a muffler w/ upswept.

 

[XSLeo]

To get good all around power don't use a pipe over 1 1/2 inches. Any bigger and the power curve runs above redline. Use the 1 1/2 and it brings it down to a usable rpms. With out adding anything. No TPO's or EPO's.
I bought some bends and built headers. I used the parts of the stock headers as 5twins did but I welded the new pipe to them so I could mount them with the stock finned ring and gaskets. It also gives you the lip to prevent exhaust gas reversion.
Leo

 

[hks650]

i think i might actually go with hoosracing. it seems like a great product at a great price. but yea not planning on going anything bigger than 1.5

 

[grizld1]

If you want 1.5" stainless pipes you'll have to make them yourself or have them custom made for you; there's no off-the-shelf source.

 

[racerdave]

What about Gordon Scott?

http://www.xs650exhaust.com/

 

[grizld1]

Gordon does good work, but he doesn't work in stainless.

 

[hks650]

sorry i meant i might just go with 1.75, i typed dow 1.5 while reading the other post from xsleo lol.

yes ive seen GS's exhaust but he doesnt work in stainless steel and that black heat coating on exhaust is not for me.

 

[hks650]

anybody has close up shots of the welds from hoos? i cant find any clear ones on the website.

 

[Jack]

If your engine displacement is 650CCs and your contemplating using 1 3/4" headers,then "EXPECT Engine Power Loses" it's the nature of the beast when you oversize moving the power band out of reach for normal street usage. Either get the ports ported for maximum velocity or stick to 1 1/2" headers or both.

 

[racerdave]

Jack, can you comment on the exhaust kits like Omars for 1.75 pipes? The ones that go in the headpipes and pipe outlets?

 

[Jack]

First impression "They Look Cheap" get what you pay for. I fully support 650Central and their products,though some what expensive,that company has been a lasting asset to the 650 community ,who's actually raced the XS 650. I suspect their EPI is a marketing cover up for 1 3/4" low sales. Second,instead of filling up the space in the second step with a EPI,why not utilize that area of volume to extend the E port,"port" then add EPI's for tuning.

The EPI when combined with a ported E port and 1 3/4" exhaust can be a valuable tool when tuning the exhaust system for a particular track and for speeding up the exhaust pulse through the radius turn,sorta like a megaphone effect,speed it up ,slow it down and speed it back up to enhance the vacuum signal at the port,plus you can expand the power band pull without the engine running out of steam.

 

[racerdave]

Jack, from my limited understand they were developed for the 1 3/4 systems to be used on street bikes to gain the lost power with the bigger pipe? Probably for us wannabes, that want a racy looking clone on the street?

 

[hks650]

i know that when u go with bigger pipes you'll loose some power on the low end. but i was thinking with 1.75 " pipes its not that far up from 1.5". after talking with G.hoos he said the 1.75 pipes ran fine with with a little jetting. and the problem is people can't tune their bike accordingly.

i use to be in the turbo honda scene and ran 3 " pipes on my civic, there were some noticleable loss of lowend but everything was made up for afterwards.

i'm really having a hard time choosing which size and and who to believe b/c i'm still new to the xs650.

 

[Jack]

i know that when u go with bigger pipes you'll loose some power on the low end. but i was thinking with 1.75 " pipes its not that far up from 1.5". after talking with G.hoos he said the 1.75 pipes ran fine with with a little jetting. and the problem is people can't tune their bike accordingly.

i use to be in the turbo honda scene and ran 3 " pipes on my civic, there were some noticleable loss of lowend but everything was made up for afterwards.

i'm really having a hard time choosing which size and and who to believe b/c i'm still new to the xs650.

The XS 650 with stock bore and stroke, simply can't expel enough mass volume of burnt gases to overcome the increase in area of volume of the 1/3/4" headers at lower and mid RPMs and only until higher up in the RPMs will piston speed overcome this pumping loss. There's more than enough factual data to support what I and many others have experienced,so yeah in the end it's your decision if you want a snappy responsive engine or a lazy one and it's your money.

Those bigger pipes do look cool ,just prep'em accordingly.

 

[bpeckm]

What would happen if you use the 1.75's as headers and then "throttle down" with mufflers that are the standard 1.5? Just talking practical, run-it-on-back-roads riding, not optimizing for track use.....