XS650 and the Sidecar of Death

[BoneYardmc]

The xs will make a nice tractor for a sidecar if setup properly. I have a couple sidecar rigs, a Dnepr and a 65 Harley, lots of fun but definitely different than riding a two wheeler. The stress that the mounts receive is considerable. Many sidecar manufacturers build a bolt on sub frame to support and spread the load to both sides of the frame. The relatively lightweight frame on these bikes would need some extra support to hold up. The Dnepr frame and the old Harley frames were engineered for a sidecar and are hell for stout.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Ha, I knew I was going to get shit for those welds.

I have no clue if that location will even work for the bracket, these appalling welds will be fine for me to set this up. I'm not going hard or offroad with this (yet) and unfortunately MS has been working hard on my hands and wrists recently.. Also, I'm using a fuggin' hobby 135 welder.

After I've got things where I want them the whole bike will be broken down and quite a few welds over the bike will be ground and properly Tig welded.

I plan to reinforce that rear lower bracket by spanning a tub from the center of it's bend across to the opposide side of the bike frame.

Where's the icon with the bike running into the brick wall?

 

[5twins]

Yes, I was going to say, you may need some additional bracing around your mount points. You might also consider bracing to the opposite side frame tube at your front upper and lower mounts. Your car is pretty big and heavy.

Also as mentioned, stiffer suspension is a must. When I had one, I changed the about 100 or 112 lb. rear shock springs to 140s. Without the car, the bike was nearly a hardtail, with it mounted it rode perfect.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Front mount went on last night too..

 

[JohnGoFast]

I appreciate all the feedback and constructive criticism.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Yes, I was going to say, you may need some additional bracing around your mount points. You might also consider bracing to the opposite side frame tube at your front upper and lower mounts. Your car is pretty big and heavy.

Also as mentioned, stiffer suspension is a must. When I had one, I changed the about 100 or 112 lb. rear shock springs to 140s. Without the car, the bike was nearly a hardtail, with it mounted it rode perfect.

Good to know. For any wondering. I don't plan to keep these cheapo shocks that are on right now. I will probably use Ohlins on for all three shocks.

Any reason or benefits to have the sidecar shock be lighter or heavier?

 

[peanut]

Ha, I knew I was going to get shit for those welds.

?

they are no worse than the pigeon shit welds I do

I wish i could weld neat seams like others seem to do easily.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Had a CL350 heat shield laying around.. Chopped it a lil..

 

[BoneYardmc]

I bet the original Russian shock would work fine until you get into some extreme heavy rough road riding. They were built for some severe roads. You need somewhat soft spring rate as the body has only the stiff rubber mounts and not much give. Don't want to launch the monkey! You will most likely need to add some rake to the front end or switch up to the Earls style fork. With the stock rake you will get a curtain amount of head shake. Sometimes a good steering dampener will cover up the wobble.
Just spotted this hack today and thought you might like to see. I'm working on owning it!!
Keep after it I'm excited to see how it all comes together!

 

[BoneYardmc]

I do like that exhaust!

 

[JohnGoFast]

I do like that exhaust!

Thanks, it came out of necessity, I fully expected it to look like shit, but it turned out pretty slick. It will get a black high temp coating aside from the stainless muffler. The heat shield will get a high temp aluminum color.

 

[BoneYardmc]

I saw some high heat powder coated header pipes that looked like polished aluminum, not sure what the cost but nice looking. Where did you find the 2 into 1 piece? I was thinking 2 into 2 but you might have changed my mind!

 

[JohnGoFast]

Cone Engineering - www.coneeng.com

 

[pago cruiser]

Kinda late now... but both Motorvation and DMG sell clamp-on clevis type fittings to bolt to the frame that eliminate welds - at least where you have an existing frame member.

This clevis pin type locks the joint into one plain of motion only (usually vertical, but it swivels if you need to adapt), and eliminates the full 360 degree possible failure mode on the stock DMC/Ural hardware - that's why the ball/socket stuff is usually replaced. While bolt on, they clamp to the frame very securely; we have yet to have one fail, although I do re-tighten annually or so.

Your heat shield turned out great. The steering damper may indeed be required; unless you want to go the VW route (google "sidecar VW steering damper"), I have used the Motorvation version with success. Larger, heavier duty, and they sell it with clamps to fit your fork sliders. I would consider a fork brace mandatory, as the XS forks are rather wimpy to begin.

Nice hoop bend on that rear lower mount. Hard to hang something where there ain't no steel... On the HD, I ended up effectively extending the lower frame rail back to this area, using a 2"wide x 1/2" thick piece of steel - took me days to fab this thing, and then weld bosses onto the frame to bolt the fab piece to.

Your hoop does stick out there a lot, with point loading at the end; this thing will want to bend. You could prolly get by with welding an external 2 piece sleeve onto the XS frame (to reinforce and spread the hoop loads), then bending and welding some 4130 (chrome moly) larger (1"?) diameter tubing (min 0.12:, maybe even 0.15: or 0.18; wall) to duplicate your hoop; that should resist bending and shock loading - I think; depends on how hard you ride, and if you are wont to hit curbs and stuff... If you are going to pile up the miles, maybe call Motorvation or DMG and see what they have to offer? They have been doing this awhile, and have decades of "oh sh!t" experiences... it would be recommended to heed their advice.

While my recommendations may seem overkill (like 0.1875" wall), there are incredible forces exerted on the bike frame by a hack; it is an un-natural pairing. Again, a metal/weld failure at speed may be the last thing you get to experience...

Legal Disclaimer... I am no expert, and you would be a fool to rely upon my comments as anything other than the ramblings of a idiot.

 

[peanut]

Kinda late now... but both Motorvation and DMG sell clamp-on clevis type fittings to bolt to the frame that eliminate welds - at least where you have an existing frame member.



.

what an excellent suggestion. never occurred to me

 

[5twins]

Your forks appear quite compressed already even with the bike and car empty. Some 1" to 2" pipe pre-load spacers on top of the springs may help. Also, you are aware that the forks have adjustable pre-load via the top cap? You should have that cranked down to the stiffest setting. Also, run about 7 ounces of fork oil instead of the specified near 6. These forks just plain work better with a bit more oil in them. Stock weight is 10 but you may want to try 15 or 20.

 

[JohnGoFast]

Fantastic suggestions guys. I tried to find bolt on kits, but I guess I didn't look hard enough.

Just took a two hour ride with a lot of curvy road and elevation changes.

Was a complete blast! Love driving this. Lots of sketchy turns with the sidecar off the ground. ;D

• 
  Braking. ASAP get the other disc and caliper on front wheel. Figure out a hydraulic brake setup for the sidecar wheel. I can definitely feel the benefits of being able to keep the rig straight with a sidecar brake

• Steering damper!

• For now, tighten up the front shocks, eventually a proper leading link front end..

• Proper rear shocks with heavier springs, maybe 140lb or more.

• Oil cooler.

 

[5twins]

If you're going to put a brake on the sidecar wheel, you might want to consider what some do and have two rear brake pedals side by side. This will allow you to brake the car only which helps going into right hand turns. For straight stops, you step on both pedals.

 

[JohnGoFast]

If you're going to put a brake on the sidecar wheel, you might want to consider what some do and have two rear brake pedals side by side. This will allow you to brake the car only which helps going into right hand turns. For straight stops, you step on both pedals.

Definitely, I've seen the brakes independent of each other on a couple rigs and thought that was a good idea, but now after driving it a bit, I think it's an amazing idea!

 

[pago cruiser]

I tried the dual brake levers, and found it more complicated than my riding style. Always had to balance my foot between the two pedals perfectly, or I would NOT stop straight.

Basically, when I want to stop or slow down, I always want it to be in a straight-ish line. If I want to stop and turn, I turn the wheel. I'm riding with a wife on the back and a canine in the hack - not playing sidecar motocrosser...

Summit Racing sells a cool little adjustable brake proportioning valve that you install just downstream of your rear master. A bit smaller than a pack of cigarettes, (1) input, with (2) outputs. A dial on top lets you adjust to any ratio you want for rear bike / hack brake. Unfortunately, after I removed my dual brake setup, I bought the valve (about $50), and a year later when I got back to it, it appears I have lost it... Hopefully get some time soon to get back on that project...