Problems with LED blinkers/relay

ianD · Jul 23, 2015

I installed LED blinkers on my bike and got one of the flasher relays from superbrightLEDs.com that was recommended on this forum. I wired them all up to a battery on a bench to test it and it worked ok. I installed them on my bike, running a PMA and capacitor, and at first they seemed to be blinking but when they were on they were kind of pulsing but extremely fast, not a steady glow. After a little bit they just got extremely dim but I could still see that they were blinking a little. I hooked a 12v battery directly to the power to the turn signal switch and they work ok (just not blinking obviously). I then tried running the relay to the battery then connecting just one turn signal directly to it and the same thing, very faint but still blinking a little.

I'm thinking the relay somehow went bad, but I can't think of anything I did that could have fried it. Could it be just a defective unit? I'd like to know for sure before I just slap a new one in there and end up in the same spot. Thanks

fredintoon · Jul 23, 2015

Hi Ian,
it's more likely that the wiring ain't right than that the relay is hooped.
Some things to check:-
That the LEDs are wired up correctly, seems they don't work if they are wired up "backwards".
That the signal indicator light, which now draws more current that the LEDs, ain't somehow messing with the system.

XSLeo · Jul 23, 2015

How close to your ignition coil do you have the flasher? A strong coil has a strong magnetic field that can play havoc with the flasher. I run a Pamco with the green monster coil. It messed with the flasher when installed where the original flasher was. Very close to the coil.
I moved the flasher back to the front of the battery box, actually I zip tied it to one of the holes where the stock air box mounted to the front battery box mount. This got it away from the coil and has worked fine ever since. You might have to extend the wires a bit.
Leo

ianD · Jul 23, 2015

I have the relay mounted underneath the seat so that shouldn't be an issue. The fact that I ran a hot wire from a battery straight to the relay, then the wire from the relay straight to one of the blinkers, then the ground on the blinker back to the battery and still got a dim flash makes me think it's the relay. But then again I'm mediocre on a good day when it comes to electrical stuff.

ianD · Jul 23, 2015

Oh and the ignition coil is under the gas tank towards the front so they're a few feet apart. And when I connect the blinker hot and ground directly to the battery I got a bright light so the blinkers themselves are good.

ianD · Jul 30, 2015

So I tried ordering another relay and I have the same problem, oh well, at least it's only 10 bucks.

Here is a link to the LED blinkers I'm using:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Metal...per-/380892643531?hash=item58aef880cb&vxp=mtr

And the relay I'm using:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...versal-motorcycle-electronic-flasher/193/841/

I drew up a diagram of the bench test i'm doing with a battery. The blinker just barely lights up, but when I wire up my LED tail light in place of the blinker it lights up bright and blinks fine. Again when I connect the blinker directly to the battery it lights up nice and bright. Could there be an incompatibility issue between the blinkers and the relay maybe? I'm really at a loss here....

fredintoon · Jul 30, 2015

Hi ian,
It's a 5-legged stool and they all gotta be right or the flashers won't work.
12V power source.
signal control switch.
flasher module.
signal lamps.
correct wiring & grounds.
Start checking with just the 12V source and the lamp.
Keep adding components until the system breaks down.
That component is the problem.

TwoManyXS1Bs · Jul 30, 2015

ianD said:
... Could there be an incompatibility issue between the blinkers and the relay maybe?

Might be. The LED taillight uses many/multiple LED elements, the LED flasher may not have as many, and the flasher relay may not function well at low currents.

A simple test: Wire 2 or more of your LED blinkers in parallel, and hook-up to your flasher unit. This will increase the current draw. If the flasher then performs correctly, then you've identified that this particular flasher unit needs more current.

A solution then may be had with a "low draw" or "no draw" flasher relay...

ianD · Jul 30, 2015

That's pretty much what I did, connected just the blinker to the battery and it works. Add the flasher relay and it doesn't. Then I try the the relay with the LED taillight and it does work so I know the relay works, I just can't figure out why it won't work with the blinkers

I'll try wiring multiple in parallel when I get home

ianD · Jul 31, 2015

So my dumb ass didn't make sure the test battery had a full charge, it was only at 10v. I got it charged all the way and the blinkers work fine. So now I'm wondering why they don't work when the bike is running. I'm running no battery with a PMA and capacitor. I tested them wired on the bike just ran the signal relay directly to a battery, hit the right turn switch and the two on the right blink appropriately, hit the left switch and the two on the left blink appropriately. So I know all the wiring is good, they just don't work when they're running off the capacitor, like they're not getting enough power somehow? The headlight, taillight, and brake switches work fine when the bike is running, just not the turn signals. Anyway, here's a picture of my wiring diagram if that helps

XSLeo · Jul 31, 2015

When I did my LED's I used the Super bright flasher. I did test it as you did. Hooked it up to a battery, it would flash with just one LED bulb hooked to it.
With your bike running have you tested the voltage at the cap. A lot of people have had issues with the reg/recs. Read ok at idle but the voltage drops as you rev the engine.
Leo

fredintoon · Jul 31, 2015

ianD said:
- - - So now I'm wondering why they don't work when the bike is running. I'm running no battery with a PMA and capacitor. I tested them wired on the bike just ran the signal relay directly to a battery, hit the right turn switch and the two on the right blink appropriately, hit the left switch and the two on the left blink appropriately. So I know all the wiring is good, they just don't work when they're running off the capacitor. - - -

Hi ianD,
according to Zen philosophy every question contains it's answer.
Ditch the capacitor and install a battery, eh?

XSLeo · Aug 1, 2015

If they work on the bike with a battery then the problem is not the turns, it's the bikes power supply.
It sounds like your PMA/cap system needs attention.
Leo

ianD · Aug 1, 2015

Ok so I just checked the voltage at the capacitor. At idle with no lights on between 11v and 12v, drops to 10v when I get on the throttle. With the headlight and taillight on I on have about 9v at idle. Without the headlight on at idle the blinkers light up about 1/second but it's pulsing rather than a steady glow and gets worse on the throttle. So sounds like a charging issue. The PO had installed the pma and reg/rec from Xscharge right before I bought it so it's a relatively new system. Any recommendations on further testing?

XSLeo · Aug 2, 2015

The first thing I would check are the grounds. Grounds need a clean bare metal to clean bare metal connection. A bit of dielectric grease to prevent corrosion.
I don't work with PMA's much but does the reg/rec's body need to be grounded?
Some of the after market versions used with the stock systems do.
If the grounds check out then it might be the reg/rec is bad. Contact XSCharge for any warranty.
Leo

ianD · Aug 6, 2015

So I wired a charged battery to the bike and started it up. Runs good and all the lights and blinkers work properly. I checked the voltage AC at the 3 prongs off the pma and got 13-14v at all points, does that check out? Is there anyway to check the reg/rec? I checked for voltage DC at the output and it was 6v. Could this be an issue with the capacitor?

glennpm · Apr 26, 2016

I have LED stop and turn signals. The flasher must be designed for LEDs. The one from Signal Dynamics or Harrison, like attached, works. I also have a trailer type relay/"tail light converter" so that the turn signals still work with the brake lights applied.

http://www.hopkinstowingsolutions.com/products/vehicle-wiring-connectors/taillight-converters/tail_light_converter_12.html

Problems with LED blinkers/relay

ianD

XS650 Member

fredintoon

Fred Hill, S'toon.

XSLeo

XS650 Guru

ianD

XS650 Member

ianD

XS650 Member

ianD

XS650 Member

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fredintoon

Fred Hill, S'toon.

TwoManyXS1Bs

BBQ Hunter

ianD

XS650 Member

ianD

XS650 Member

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XSLeo

XS650 Guru

fredintoon

Fred Hill, S'toon.

XSLeo

XS650 Guru

ianD

XS650 Member

XSLeo

XS650 Guru

ianD

XS650 Member

glennpm

Another Old Biker Nut!

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