XS650.com
Forum Search: Advanced

Go Back   XS650 Forum > General Discussion > The Garage
Register Forum FAQ XS650 Tech Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Donate

Welcome to XS650.com!
XS650.com is dedicated to the Yamaha XS650 twin motorcycles and to the people who love to ride, restore, and customize them. As a guest you can view the forum and photo galleries full of xs650 choppers, bobbers, trackers, cafe racers, and restorations, but you have to register before you can post or view attachments. Itís free and only takes a minute. Proceed to registration. (This notice will go away once you log in)

The Garage Motorcycle Related Discussion (Yamaha XS650, other makes and models, and anything else motorcycle related including tools and gear)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-19-2011, 10:10 PM   #1
Patches
XS650 Junkie
 
Patches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 816
Default Jack's Information on Head Porting

I know Jack has been hanging around the forum a little bit now and I have been looking over his info in the 650 garage. I am starting to get into head porting and experimenting a bit. A lot of his info is written down and described pretty well, but all of the pictures are missing. Also his info on basic head porting is missing too. Does anyone know if that info with pics is floating around here somewhere? Or has anyone saved it for future reference? He's a wealth of knowledge, and I think it would be good to see that info here as well.

Jack- if you are reading this please feel free to chime in.


www.smtco.biz

"I'd like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger."
- Cal Nauton Jr.
Patches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 12:38 AM   #2
dwyatt
XS650 Addict
 
dwyatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Montgomery, Texas
Posts: 252
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Pretty sure they got purged from the host site. Damned shame, some good stuff there.


Current Rides:
2000 HD SuperGlide
1983 Yamaha XS-700RR
1956 Blonde TX Gal
dwyatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 12:02 PM   #3
justin
XS Monger
 
justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aurora IL
Posts: 88
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

I thought i posted those here, all well here you go....


Alrighty here are the pics. I do not have these in proper order most likely, These are pics of the INTAKE ports...























justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 12:06 PM   #4
justin
XS Monger
 
justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aurora IL
Posts: 88
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Here are the EXHAUST port pics....

























justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 12:09 PM   #5
justin
XS Monger
 
justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aurora IL
Posts: 88
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Thats all i have, match that up with THIS POST. Below are the flow numbers for the modified Vs. stock heads as ported, and a pic of the gentlemen responsible for all the hard work.




justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 01:53 PM   #6
scabber
XS650 Guru
 
scabber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stanton Delaware
Posts: 1,749
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

The pictures show it all takes a little time but well worth it.


80SG 750cc 1 1/2 mikes comando exhaust. 2009 EX500 carbs 38 pilot jet 138 main jjj needles Uni pod filters. Shell #1 cam RD springs ported head 17 and 32 sprockets. Progressive springs emulators Forodo springs clutches one piece rod bearing up grade. Brass swing arm bushings bolt up grade. Pamco ultimate coil.
scabber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 03:04 PM   #7
Punkskalar
Hugh's HandBuilt
 
Punkskalar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,032
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

The best part, is that JACK just came by the shop this week I've been looking up to his work for a good long while and it was nice to finally meet him in person.

I'm gonna help him get his Long Rod engine together, and he's willing to help me work on a head for my latest engine

Life is good over here at Hugh's HandBuilt


Tech - Creative Fabrication - http://hughshandbuilt.blogspot.com/
Website - http://hughshandbuilt.com/

*There is never a charge for Tech Support even if you don't purchase from us - We are Enthusiasts Helping Other Enthusiast and that is just the way it is
Punkskalar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 04:04 PM   #8
Patches
XS650 Junkie
 
Patches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 816
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkskalar View Post
The best part, is that JACK just came by the shop this week I've been looking up to his work for a good long while and it was nice to finally meet him in person.

I'm gonna help him get his Long Rod engine together, and he's willing to help me work on a head for my latest engine

Life is good over here at Hugh's HandBuilt
Would this be the CR500 rods with XT pistons or GSXR pistons? 860cc or 880cc? Inquiring minds want to know.....

Gotta love Hugh. Just living an XS dream..... lol

Edit:
v scabber, I've been watching the same build. Those combustion chambers are crazy. He said that it just takes a bunch of mig welding and grinding. But after reading everything I'm still unsure what pistons they have decided to go with. Also, I don't remember how much or if they were raising the deck..... It's a long thread......


Last edited by Patches; 09-20-2011 at 04:56 PM.

www.smtco.biz

"I'd like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger."
- Cal Nauton Jr.
Patches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
scabber
XS650 Guru
 
scabber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stanton Delaware
Posts: 1,749
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Thats good to hear I've been watching that build a long time while he was working on the head and combustion chamber design. Keep us posted.


80SG 750cc 1 1/2 mikes comando exhaust. 2009 EX500 carbs 38 pilot jet 138 main jjj needles Uni pod filters. Shell #1 cam RD springs ported head 17 and 32 sprockets. Progressive springs emulators Forodo springs clutches one piece rod bearing up grade. Brass swing arm bushings bolt up grade. Pamco ultimate coil.
scabber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 07:31 PM   #10
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
I know Jack has been hanging around the forum a little bit now and I have been looking over his info in the 650 garage. I am starting to get into head porting and experimenting a bit. A lot of his info is written down and described pretty well, but all of the pictures are missing. Also his info on basic head porting is missing too. Does anyone know if that info with pics is floating around here somewhere? Or has anyone saved it for future reference? He's a wealth of knowledge, and I think it would be good to see that info here as well.

Jack- if you are reading this please feel free to chime in.
First of all, Justin"THANK YOU"! for saving those porting photo's. I"m really not quite sure what happened over at Photo Buckets as I was trying to create a back-up photo file and cleaning out some old photo's and apparently I hit the wrong keyI'm a real klutz when it comes to computers

Patch, What is that you wanna know on the experiments? All the basic porting info is in the extreme section.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 07:49 PM   #11
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkskalar View Post
The best part, is that JACK just came by the shop this week I've been looking up to his work for a good long while and it was nice to finally meet him in person.

I'm gonna help him get his Long Rod engine together, and he's willing to help me work on a head for my latest engine

Life is good over here at Hugh's HandBuilt
Just want everyone here to know,Hugh has got it happening over at Hughs HandBuild.com Bobbers on lifts,motors being built( One is for an editor of some motorcycle magazine,I believe ) ,packages waiting to be shipped and big boobed babes wanting to ride his XS.Wow! I need to wake up
This young gentleman who's definitely blessed with motorcycle passion has a very bright future ahead of him and I glad to have met him.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 08:00 PM   #12
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
Would this be the CR500 rods with XT pistons or GSXR pistons? 860cc or 880cc? Inquiring minds want to know.....

Gotta love Hugh. Just living an XS dream..... lol

Edit:
v scabber, I've been watching the same build. Those combustion chambers are crazy. He said that it just takes a bunch of mig welding and grinding. But after reading everything I'm still unsure what pistons they have decided to go with. Also, I don't remember how much or if they were raising the deck..... It's a long thread......
The piston choices will depend on how the second flow test fairs after mods to up the gains in the 200 to 300 lift range. Piston choices are narrowed down to the KZ1100 or GSXR 1150 piston. Deck height with GSXR pistons is negative the thickness of base gasket and deck height with KZs is positive.020 with base gasket.


Last edited by Jack; 09-20-2011 at 08:24 PM.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 08:49 PM   #13
Patches
XS650 Junkie
 
Patches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 816
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Justin-

Thank you again for saving those photos. I have already saved them on my hard drive and plan on putting something together with Jack's info (that is if that's ok with you, Jack).

I believe that you can bolt on all the 750 kits you want but if you don't get these heads flowing properly you are wasting some serious potential.

Jack-

What displacement are you shooting for? Also are you swapping to the CR con rods or just going with 256 rods and new sleeves/pistons? There looks to be some considerable weight savings with the GSXR pistons if I recall correctly.

I have several XS motors laying around at this point in time. One is a XS1 that was seized and since then I have gotten touch with Gary Hoos. For the motor we have put together the following forma very mild build:

JE 700cc kit with no base gasket running aprox 10.5:1 compression (9.5:1 w/ base gasket)
Performance aluminum top valve spring kit
Shell #1 cam
Lectron Carbs
Intake runners
Sparx charging system (to reduce rotational mass)
Boyer or Pamco Ignition
(every part weighed and balanced on a very precise digital scale (down to 1/10 grain)

I also plan on doing a 750 and hopefully 860-880cc motor once I get all of the research done. I'm really looking into the CR500 connecting rod swap but I'm a bit concerned if the head is going to be able to keep up. The thread in XS650 garage is great, but I need to sit down with a pencil and paper to keep all of the info straight (the math can get a little crazy) and dedicate about 2 hours to getting it all re-read and figured out.


www.smtco.biz

"I'd like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger."
- Cal Nauton Jr.
Patches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 12:52 AM   #14
justin
XS Monger
 
justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aurora IL
Posts: 88
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
First of all, Justin"THANK YOU"! for saving those porting photo's. I"m really not quite sure what happened over at Photo Buckets as I was trying to create a back-up photo file and cleaning out some old photo's and apparently I hit the wrong keyI'm a real klutz when it comes to computers

Patch, What is that you wanna know on the experiments? All the basic porting info is in the extreme section.
Not problem sir! I actually have them hosted on my website, i PMed you over on 650garage with all the information to link to them in your post about a year ago. Ill leave them on indefinitely. feel free to use the links or whatever, there yours after all lol. Likewise if you ever want them removed just say the word.

And THANK YOU! for all the great information and work.
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 07:14 PM   #15
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
Justin-

Thank you again for saving those photos. I have already saved them on my hard drive and plan on putting something together with Jack's info (that is if that's ok with you, Jack). No problem,as all we have are ourselves when it comes to modifying for more performance.

I believe that you can bolt on all the 750 kits you want but if you don't get these heads flowing properly you are wasting some serious potential.The numbers have always been there,is just a matter of the getting the flow up in the lift increments without the flow diminishing.The XS head will support 100Hp but not without some serious mods

Jack-

What displacement are you shooting for? Also are you swapping to the CR con rods or just going with 256 rods and new sleeves/pistons? There looks to be some considerable weight savings with the GSXR pistons if I recall correctly.The displacement will be 707ccs (78mm bore). I'm still using the CR500 rods as they more readily available than the 256 rod. The GSXR piston,depending on dome is approximately 100 grams lighter than a stock piston,which significantly reducing the stress loads on the rod and crank as the RPMs increase. The CR rods are an overkill for street use ,just have to wind the motor tighter but I love how it changes the exhaust tone.

I have several XS motors laying around at this point in time. One is a XS1 that was seized and since then I have gotten touch with Gary Hoos. For the motor we have put together the following forma very mild build:

JE 700cc kit with no base gasket running aprox 10.5:1 compression (9.5:1 w/ base gasket)
Performance aluminum top valve spring kit
Shell #1 cam
Lectron Carbs
Intake runners
Sparx charging system (to reduce rotational mass)
Boyer or Pamco Ignition
(every part weighed and balanced on a very precise digital scale (down to 1/10 grain)
Patch, you can take this tip for what it's worth but do not under any circumstances use any type of Aluminum Valve Retainer for street use! Once the hardening coating wears off,they begin to elongate in the stem opening and eventually destroying the valves upper stem,locking the two together. I've seen this happen hundreds of time when they became popular decades ago ,when I was working part time in a friends machine shop,your decision,your money,your motor,just a suggestion.

I also plan on doing a 750 and hopefully 860-880cc motor once I get all of the research done. I'm really looking into the CR500 connecting rod swap but I'm a bit concerned if the head is going to be able to keep up. The thread in XS650 garage is great, but I need to sit down with a pencil and paper to keep all of the info straight (the math can get a little crazy) and dedicate about 2 hours to getting it all re-read and figured out.
One of the strongest points of going L/R is flow requirements aren't of strict importance as velocity becomes due to pumping loses from tdc to mid stroke. The XS head from a flow perspective is truly more suited for the L/R as the ports don't have to work as hard allowing some flexibility in altering the ports shape to enhance velocity . here's an poring article and as your reading it,envision it's referring to the XS head. The XS head responds quite nicely with positive gains when the port volumes are reduced.
Patch,I just reviewed this response,it's all screwed up,read carefully between each paragraph

http://sr500forum.bravehost.com/sr500ehopup.html


Last edited by Jack; 09-21-2011 at 07:31 PM.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 10:27 PM   #16
Patches
XS650 Junkie
 
Patches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 816
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
One of the strongest points of going L/R is flow requirements aren't of strict importance as velocity becomes due to pumping loses from tdc to mid stroke. The XS head from a flow perspective is truly more suited for the L/R as the ports don't have to work as hard allowing some flexibility in altering the ports shape to enhance velocity . here's an poring article and as your reading it,envision it's referring to the XS head. The XS head responds quite nicely with positive gains when the port volumes are reduced.
Patch,I just reviewed this response,it's all screwed up,read carefully between each paragraph

http://sr500forum.bravehost.com/sr500ehopup.html
Ok, so I read the article. Good read, some interesting stuff. I must say that it was a little disappointing to get all the way to the end and not see any dyno results....

I was surprised to see that they raised the floor 7mm. Unfortunately very,very few of us have a flow bench to our disposal..... Not to mention the time to conduct 600 flow tests I think this is where we need to find a happy medium with proven results. Kinda the KISS method for porting the XS head. It seems that for the general XS motor builder there are a couple basic things that can be done with guaranteed positive results.

On a side note I compared the ports on my XS1 head to a later model head (81 I thinks) and I must say that the XS1 seemed to have a slightly higher quality or casting with less jagged edges and better fit/finish. Maybe it's just a coincidence... because like it has been said before not all castings are the same and not all XS heads will flow the same.

None the less, I'm going to keep up the research and see what all can be learner.

Jack- if you get a chance please keep us up to date on your motor build. I love reading about it.


www.smtco.biz

"I'd like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger."
- Cal Nauton Jr.
Patches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 04:56 PM   #17
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

The XS1 ports were designed for the usage of the 256 rod,higher velocity with no flow loses in comparison to the later model heads that I've had flowed but the XS1 ports are far more consistent in flow casting of the intake port than exhaust and it's this casting efficiency in the XS1 intake ports that gives dead near equal flow #s when flow comparing different XS1 heads. They loose a little flow at .300 lift but more than make up for this lose around .350 lift. And if you want that intake port to move some serious air,along with pumping up velocity, D Shape the intake port,raise the floor 2mms,lay the short turn way back for that gentle radius,streamline the guide boss,install a thick margin intake valve and this head will hang with the best of them on the bench or on the street,etc. That head is tops in my book.
Later and Good luck on your projects and if you by any chance ever want to sell a matching XS1 compo,drop me a line.


Last edited by Jack; 09-22-2011 at 05:07 PM.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 11:42 PM   #18
Patches
XS650 Junkie
 
Patches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 816
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Jack-

I actually have a spare XS1 head and rocker box. It may need some work. I haven't pulled the valves to take a look at the sealing surfaces yet. Maybe we can work something out.
It's been a long day, but I'll drop you a PM tomorrow.

Also, I've met a guy that has some flat track friends that have built many successful CR500 con rod XS motors. Once we all get time we plan to get together and compare notes and swap some info.


www.smtco.biz

"I'd like to think of Jesus as a mischievous badger."
- Cal Nauton Jr.
Patches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 04:55 AM   #19
Jack
XS650 Addict
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North carolina
Posts: 423
Default Re: Jack's Information on Head Porting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
Jack-

I actually have a spare XS1 head and rocker box. It may need some work. I haven't pulled the valves to take a look at the sealing surfaces yet. Maybe we can work something out.
It's been a long day, but I'll drop you a PM tomorrow.

Also, I've met a guy that has some flat track friends that have built many successful CR500 con rod XS motors. Once we all get time we plan to get together and compare notes and swap some info.
Bring that meeting to North Carolina so I can attend too That's gonna be a fun meeting for sure sharing ideas and tricks,that's what it's all about. Can't wait to hear what their using for pistons,compression height should be 1.000 or slightly less. Take notes,take notes ,take notes
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Similar Threads (based on keywords)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SS Brake line information atomic22 The Garage 19 06-14-2012 12:38 PM
head lamp saftey relay is good but head lamp doesn't work!!! what next?????? madman1980 The Garage 20 04-04-2011 08:09 PM
Seems like it would do well in a head on..... tadd442 The Garage 4 03-29-2011 09:16 PM
xsjohn's needles information needed! twinsarehot The Garage 8 07-06-2010 11:45 PM
Information? jax21 The Garage 6 05-23-2010 12:03 AM

Tags
engine

Bookmarks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM.