Refurbishing

So as to expand upon XSLeo's input to turkeyroll60's post, without hijacking the thread, I decided to make a separate post.

I bought a running '79 Special with no major cosmetic or mechanical issues for $800. I cranked it up and rode it around a little before handing over the cash.

I knew it needed at the very least tires and mufflers before it would pass inspection, and it's too late in the season to get much riding in anyway, so I'm in no hurry to get it on the road.

I started by pulling off stuff I knew I didn't want on the finished product: fairing, sissybar/luggage rack, and the old mufflers.

Then I pulled the front end apart because it needed a new tire, new dust seals on the forks, a headlight with associated mounting bits to replace the one what went with the fairing, and a new left switch group as the hi/lo beam switch was broken.

Seeing as I had the head pipes off to replace the mufflers and the engine had a fairly serious oil leak somewhere, I went ahead and pulled the engine out of the frame and put it on an engine stand.

So far I have:

Degreased the engine.

Pulled, cleaned and repaired the sump screen (torn in the usual spot)

Pulled, cleaned and replaced the oil filter (no issues)

Checked the clutch push rod and ordered a new seal and bushing.

Disassembled, cleaned, inspected and reassembled the carburators.

Ordered new air filters and an airbox boot.

Pulled, disassembled, cleaned and reassembled the starter motor, and ordered new a new seal for the motor-to-engine connection.

Pulled, disassembled and inspected the starter intermediate gears (no issues, need new gasket for the cover)

Pulled the clutch cover and pulled the clutch to check the starter gears and bendix (bendix clip spring in the "old" position, otherwise okay)

Adjusted the cam chain tensioner.

Set the valve lash.

Gapped the points and set the static timing.

Replaced various boogered up screws from PO or shadetree mechanic's hamfisted efforts at maintenance.

Yet to do:

Degrease and touch up the frame.

Replace front and rear sprockets and chain.

Replace mufflers.

Mount and balance tires.

Change fork oil.

Purge and bleed front and rear master cylinders.

Replace all the fuel lines.

By the time all this is done, I'll have close to $2000 in an $800 bike, doing all the labor myself. And this was a running, rideable bike when I bought it.

My point is, buying a 30+ year old motorcycle is a commitment. If you like fixing stuff and bringing neglected equipment back up to snuff (and I do...) it's about as much fun as an old fart like me can have with his clothes on.

If you're hoping to pay small bucks for an old bike, put gas in it and go, you're in for a shock...

Wow... DE, you have really been at it! After 4 years of working on my bike, I still don't have the confidence to do a lot of what you do without even blinking!

By the time all this is done, I'll have close to $2000 in an $800 bike, doing all the labor myself. And this was a running, rideable bike when I bought it.

My point is, buying a 30+ year old motorcycle is a commitment.

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I hear ya! I paid $1500 for mine as a basically solid but cosmetically (and somewhat electrically and mechanically) challenged non-runner, and have a good grand or more in her now. I'm still learning about that "commitment" as I go...

TC

TeeCat said:

Wow... DE, you have really been at it! After 4 years of working on my bike, I still don't have the confidence to do a lot of what you do without even blinking!

TC

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Thanks, TC.

I've been doing my own mechanicing for a lot of years, and I've never been smart enough to realize I couldn't do something, so I'm apt to just tear into things and learn as I go.

This has occasionally bitten me on the ass (there was this '78 750 Triple...) but by and large, I get away with it.

This site has been a HUGE help too. I've done searches on carburetor cleaning/adjustment/synchronization, static timing, valve setting, starter issues and tube vs. tubeless tires and printed out a mess of step-by-step how-tos that have in some cases jogged my memory and in others taught me stuff I had no clue about.

It also helps that I bought a '74 TX650A new and rode it for nearly 10 years. Bought that bike in Maine, shipped it to Japan when I transferred there, shipped it back to Florida when I transferred there, and it never saw the inside of a Yamaha dealership since I drove it off the showroom floor. Ya get ta know 'em pretty well over that sort of relationship...

D, if it had not been for this forum and the good folks here, I'd have been well and truly screwed. I "knew" that my '73 TX was the "right" platform for what I wanted to do - a mild cafe roadster - and she kicked through with no metal to metal or other odd sounds, so I took a $1500 chance. It's been a long and slow road, but I can honestly say that only the mounting of new tires was done by someone other than me. Fortunately, I have not had to yank this motor and go into it, because I'm just not there (in terms of ability/time) at this point. But this past season has been the first one that I have really begun to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

That said, having guys like you (with a lot of aggregate mechanical experience) around is a gift to someone like me.

Please do keep us posted with your current project!

TC

Hey downeaster, nice to see a fellow mainer. I'm located in Waterville working on my second xs. Maybe we could swap story's some time

Whadda coinkydink!

I picked my Special up in Waterville!

You've got a well thought-out plan that will reward you eventually in pure enjoyment of a reliable machine. When you do the brake systems, you might want to consider completely disassembling them for total cleaning, new kits, and stainless steel brake lines. Also consider 15w fork oil to firm up the front shocks a bit. Expect your list to grow as you work thru it - stuff like Pamco, PMA, new Progressive rear shocks, hotter coil with new plug wires and caps, etc., etc. - pretty soon you can have $3000 in it like me (and I'm nowhere near done).

Downeaster;

You definitely have the right atitude to bringing these bikes back to a high standard. You will end up with a very reliable bike.

Too many times we see guys come on the site, and just don't want to put in the effort required. They say, " I found a bike that has sat for 15 years, changed the oil and put in a new battery, but it still runs like crap"

A yuh, you're gonna do fine.

A very well thought out approach. I might add just a couple things.
Go through the wiring from end to end, inspect all connections for clean and tight. A bit of dialectric grease keeps thing clean.
On your front sprocket you may find the nut not much more than finger tight. This lets oil leak out from behind the sprocket. Many think the seal is bad.
Oil can get out there but it's not the seal. There is a sleeve that goes through the seal. This sleeve seats against the inner bearing race of the output shaft bearing. The sprocket pushes this sleeve tight against the race. If the sprocket nut is loose oil can get between the race and sleeve, travel through the sleeve and seep out between the sleeve and sprocket.
So if you think the seal is bad try properly torquing the nut first. Early specs are 72-86 ft/lbs, later specs are 36 ft/lbs. I would go with the early spec.
Replacing that seal can be done most anytime, with the engine right in the bike.
When you order the clutch push rod seal you might want to get two or three. It is easy to damage the seal the first try.
I have found using a #3 phillips screwdriver as an installation tool helps. A fender washer that just slips on the screw driver then the seal. Put the screw driver in the hole the push rod goes in, this guides the seal straight, the washer helps from pushing the seal too far. Bevel the edge of the hole a bit helps prevent damage, not much, just enough to break the sharp edge.
On the brakes, a good cleaning is vey helpful. New parts may not be needed. The caliper seals are pretty robust. Same with the M/C. Often caliper pistons get rusted and pitted.
I'm starting to ramble. What you have will keep you busy. When you get to the brakes then we'll talk.
Leo

Thanks Leo. I was aware of the sprocket issue and it was indeed barely finger tight. Waiting on a new sprocket.

The tip on installing the push rod seal is appreciated. Any input on the idea of using TWO seals? I've seen it advocated here, and used it in some situations on tractor repairs. Any pointers on the bushing replacement?

Debating just installing a new wiring harness. Budget will determine that. I'll be selling this year's crop of lambs right after Thanksgiving, may be able to siphon some off to the bike budget.

I'm following this clutch push rod discussion carefully in case I ever have to replace mine; I had preemptively ordered seal (maybe two) and a bushing a while ago. I have only done a crank seal and a main output shaft seal so far. I have never seen the two seal idea before. Not quite clear on that.

Good discussion!

TC

TC the idea is that IF the boss is deep enough, you place two seals in it, one on top of the other, providing twice as much sealing surface and reducing the chances of a leak.

Some folks think it also provides more support for the shaft, reducing wear on the bushing. I'm not so sure about that.

I rebuild old farm equipment (tractors and such) and have on occasion used double seals, one facing each way. That is, one with lip in towards the oil source (transmission or rear end) and one lip out towards the dry part of the shaft.

D, that's what I gathered. It makes perfect sense in theory, however, I don't recall (from looking at pictures of the pushrod seal boss) that the boss is that deep. I know from experience that the main output shaft seal boss and the crank seal boss are only deep enough for one seal, as the seals bottom out as they become flush with the case.

TC

I have just started hearing about the two seal thing, haven't read anything about it.
Replacing the worn bushing is to help save wear on the seal, not so much the other way round.
Mike's has an excellent how to on the bushing. I can't describe it better. I might suggest filling the flutes in the drill bit with grease to help catch filings. I also filled the bearing with grease for the same reason.
If your wiring harness hasn't been hacked up, then it should be ok. I think a bit of mainyainance on the wiring will do as much as replacement and save a few bucks.
If it has been hacked up then it might be simpler to replace.
I might build my own harness. This way you could delete items that are known to be problematic. Things like the turn signal canceler, reserve lighting unit, light checker, a few up grades, like the Pamco, his Chrysler reg and Radio Shack rec mods.
I would reccomend reading up on the electrical side and work with what you have and decide from there.
Leo

Also, the long clutch rod is allot better that the stock short rod, ball bearing, longer rod. It eleminates the blaa bearing in between the two rod's, saving the bushing under the seal.
I don't remember if there is enough room for two seals, maybe. I went with the long rod from Mike's years ago, and the bushing and seal are still in great shape.

Checked the FAQ on Mikes, thanks for the heads up!

I should have time this weekend to examine the wiring harness closer. It hasn't been hacked up, I may just buff up the connections and put a little dielectric grease on them and call it good.

I plan to read up on the system and remove the extraneous crap as mentioned. Simpler is almost always better...

Progress report. Can't say I've turned the corner yet, but I can see it from here.

In addition to the original list, I've

Replaced the clutch bushing and seal.

Replaced the starter snout seal.

Replaced the alternator brushes

Inspected cleaned and lubed the advance mechanism.

Soda blasted, primed and repainted the battery box.

Cleaned and touched up the frame.

Polished all the chrome bits (Mother's is wonderful stuff, in case you didn't know...)

Wetsanded and buffed the alternator cover, clutch cover and fork lowers.

Reinstalled the battery box and cleaned and applied dielectric grease to the associated connectors.

Removed the Reserve Lighting Device, Light Checker and Turn Signal Canceller.

Cleaned inspected and greased the head bearings.

Reinstalled the triple clamps and forks, and restored the front end to the original configuration with used mounting ears, headlight bucket and turn signals. Put a new headlight in the mounting ring but won't put it back on the bike until near the end. Still need to clean and grease the connections in the bucket which has to wait for the handlebars to be mounted, which has to wait for new isolation rubbers.

The last tear down task is to overhaul the brakes. I think rather than trust my life to 30 year old rubber lines, I will get a set of braided stainless and just replace them. Given the price, I'll probably also just put kits in both master cylinders rather than frig with them.

Once that's done, all that's left is reassembly, cosmetics and a good tuneup.

ETA: Oh, and them freakin' expensive mufflers...

Jeez DE,

Like you, I'm restoring a late 70's Special. Your level of organization and thoroughness is impressive. I'm beating mine to death with my wallet!

royboy

Royboy said:

Jeez DE,

Like you, I'm restoring a late 70's Special. Your level of organization and thoroughness is impressive. I'm beating mine to death with my wallet!

royboy

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I hear ya. With the latest order for brake parts, I've spent about $700, basically doubling my investment in the bike. Good news is, only about $300 to go. Chain, mufflers, and a tube for the front tire because I'm a dumbass and tore the old one getting the tire off...