Well, not sure what my Magura lever is achieving, travelwise, but I can't get neutral unless I'm rolling. Simply not possible. Mind, I am still using run in oil so that may well be adding extra clutch drag. I think the extra 1-1.5mm will be key.
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Hard to get into neutral
- Thread starter jun8ior
- Start date
If it's a dog leg style lever, I don't think they give as much pull before hitting the grip compared to the normal curved lever. I don't know, maybe they're the same. I switched mine to the normal curved type years ago because that's what came on the Kawasaki perch I like to run .....
I switched to this because of it's very wide pivot. It's probably 3 to 4 times as wide as the original lever.
I switched to this because of it's very wide pivot. It's probably 3 to 4 times as wide as the original lever.
This may not seem intuitive but while at a stop in first let the clutch out a bit so the bike rolls forward a few inches then pull in and try for neutral. This works for me on about any multi plate wet clutch bike. My theory is it squeezes out any oil and breaks plate stiction reducing pressure between the gear dogs.
The Magura isn't too dissimilar to your lever 5twins, not a dog leg type. It has a lever arm length of 27mm (centre of pivot bolt to centre of nipple) so a lever with 30mm would give a bit more actuator travel for the same pull at the bars. The hard bit is finding a level with a 30mm LA.
gggGary, your trick is an interesting one and I can see your thinking. A friend of mine who owns a bike shop\garage said to raise the rpm, while standing, to between 1500-2000rpm, to break the oil drag and it will slip into neutral. Says it always works. It didnt.
gggGary, your trick is an interesting one and I can see your thinking. A friend of mine who owns a bike shop\garage said to raise the rpm, while standing, to between 1500-2000rpm, to break the oil drag and it will slip into neutral. Says it always works. It didnt.
maico996
XS650 Addict
For my '80 SG it's easiest to slip it into neutral when I'm rolling forward a little, like coming to a stop. I can also get it to slip into neutral by raising the RPMs a little and feathering the clutch.
I fitted a Deauville clutch perch and lever and it made a significant difference for the better. Just slightly better leverage is all it took.
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Grimly, I'm guessing it's a Honda Deuville you're referring to. Are you able to measure the lever arm distance (pivot bolt centre to nipple centre)? Nedd this to be approx. 30mm for it to be an improvement on my Magura lever, which is 27mm.
When cold, no issue shifting into neutral. When hot (at a stop) finding neutral is a quick blip of the throttle as I click up from 1st gear. Always works, just a hassle vs. an easy click up with every other bike I own. LOL. But if it were easy, everyone would own one, right? 
This one's about 27mm, too.
The reason I changed it was the old one was worn and knackered, and I'd already had good experience with the Deauville brake master cylinders, so on it went, and made a matching set. The better action is probably a result of it not being knackered and different feel/leverage due to the dogleg.
maico996
XS650 Addict
When cold, no issue shifting into neutral. When hot (at a stop) finding neutral is a quick blip of the throttle as I click up from 1st gear. Always works, just a hassle vs. an easy click up with every other bike I own. LOL. But if it were easy, everyone would own one, right?
That's what makes them "Special".
Ok, so I'm not going to get any advantage by swapping to one of those levers then. Will sort out a 13-14mm piston set up and see how that goes. Will keep the thread updated. Thanks everyone who contributed. It's much appreciated.
Ok, just bought and tested another hydraulic clutch lever. This one offers between 1.85-1.95mm of actuator rod travel. The previous one offered 3.65-3.67mm. So I'm not sure if 1.85-1.95mm will give me more than my cable set up. See, very frustrating. By the time I find a clutch lever that gives me slightly more than 2mm I could end up with a garage full of levers.
Well, its been a while now but the bike has done enough miles to drain the run in oil. So, with the engine cover off I've measured the clutch rod travel that I'm getting with the Magura lever and its 1.5mm. I've acquired a pair of Chinese copy CB400 hydraulic levers which will look good on the bike and which, after testing are giving me 3.1 - 3.2mm of clutch rod travel. I've also checked my pressure plate to cover clearance and that's around 5.1. So, hopefully thwe 3.1mm of hydraulic travel is ok re clearances. The only thing I don't know for sure at the moment is whether I will end up with spring bind, but we shall see. I guess I could check this (before modifying my left hand engine cover) by adding a 1.7mm thick washer/spacer on the spring bolt, to simulate the extra travel. Getting a bit nearer though
Bruno_c
XS650 Enthusiast
Did you check you don't have a warped plate?
I haven't as yet, though I'm not really expecting trouble in that department.
Bruno_c
XS650 Enthusiast
Maybe you should. A warped plate makes the clutch difficult to disengage.
To be honest, what I'm finding is what others are saying, which is that it disengages when the engine is cold, but when it heats up it is JUST dragging, just enough to try to make the bike creep when standing still. So I'm confident the hydraulic conversion will do the trick nicely.
That's why many of us set the adjustment pretty tight (set when cold). Back the adjuster screw out a very small amount at the worm (maybe 1/8 turn at most) after it bottoms out, and adjust practically all the remaining freeplay out up at the lever. Not to worry, this "tight" setting doesn't stay that way long. As soon as you start the bike and it begins warming up, more freeplay begins to develop. The trick is getting it set snug enough cold (but not too tight so the clutch slips) so that when it gets hot, you don't have too much play. You can't do this "tight" adjusting when hot because once the bike cools and parts contract, the setting will be too tight and probably result in clutch slip.
