78 Ignition Timing Points

[hjpaul7]

I cannot figure this out for the life of me. I've followed the steps here http://www.650central.com/fsetting_pointstype_ignition_on.htm. and have gotten to the part where I rotate the ignition plate. I'm using an ohm meter that I have to hold to the points, and no matter how much I rotate it back and forth, which is very little, it still reads like .8. So, I'm confused at this point.

I also noticed my gaps won't stay. I losen the screw, open gaps, tighten down and it just snaps closed.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

What may help is to pull the tank, find and disconnect the (2) points wires that go to the coils. This electrically isolates the points. Keep track of which goes to which.

Having points gaps skitter about while tightening their screws is not unusual. First check to be sure that no screws protrude beyond the back of the points plate. Then, flipping the little points screw washers over may stop your gap creep...

 

[hjpaul7]

Are both supposed to be firing at the same time?

I got them gapped right, for the upper points I feel pressure building in the right SP hole, so I go to the rotor, set it in the middle of the F, check points with multi meter and it shows both are giving current. And the upper points are closed.

Where should you attach the Red, and Black ends (mine are needles), the red directly on the point that looks like a small magnet? Then black to block or something?

They give off current constantly but it's low, I just have been looking for when it spikes. Also key is off and out.

Really stumped.

 

[5twins]

First time setting points is it? It shows, lol. Shelve the meter, they're more of a pain in the ass than they're worth. Use a small 12v bulb instead. Setting the rotor mark between the F marks and then checking really tells you nothing except that the points are or are not already open. That's not what you need to know. You need to know the exact point they begin to open. That should happen somewhere in the F range. You slowly rotate the motor and watch the meter or bulb as you do so. When the bulb come on or the meter registers something, note where the mark on the rotor is. If not in the F range, you have to adjust the timing.

 

[hjpaul7]

First time setting points is it? It shows, lol. Shelve the meter, they're more of a pain in the ass than they're worth. Use a small 12v bulb instead. Setting the rotor mark between the F marks and then checking really tells you nothing except that the points are or are not already open. That's not what you need to know. You need to know the exact point they begin to open. That should happen somewhere in the F range. You slowly rotate the motor and watch the meter or bulb as you do so. When the bulb come on or the meter registers something, note where the mark on the rotor is. If not in the F range, you have to adjust the timing.

A 12v bulb with alligator clips? Yes its my first time ever touching something beyond a bicycle. So, what part do you attach the clips to then, since the points are so small.

 

[5twins]

One lead is the ground so just clip it to a cylinder fin or anything to ground it. The other lead is positive. Clip it to the little nut and bolt that the wire attaches to on the points set you're timing. I have long leads on my little light so it can hang down right next to the rotor. That way I can watch it and the timing marks at the same time, in my same field of vision. I don't have to look away to the light and back to the timing marks. I see it come on as I'm watching the marks.

To use the 12v bulb, the key must be on. Don't leave it on for an extended time though. Power is going through the coils when it's on and they can overheat, sometimes damaging them. So, key on, turn the motor over by hand while watching timing marks and light, note where light comes on - then turn the key off while you're doing any adjusting that's needed. Then key on again to check the timing after the adjustment. Here's a link that may explain what's happening better. If you understand the mechanics of the timing adjustment, they're easier to do .....

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/7984

 

[hjpaul7]

I got a 12v bulb, for the upper points, when I rotate to rotor the bulb lights up way in advance. No matter how much I move the back plate. What's going on?

Edit: I believe I understand now, however if the timing is too advanced, I rotate the plate to be more retarded...almost there, so I rotate it a little more, then it becomes more advanced. In the wrong direction. It's very spuratic

I get it just perfect, check again and its way advanced. Check again and its different again. I don't get why it keeps changing.

 

[hjpaul7]

I replaced the coils, wait for the upper points to close, go to the middle of the F mark, turn the key on and the light is on, I rotate the plate in both directions and the light still remains on.

 

[weaselbeak]

Points are simple as hell to set. Go back to square one and learn the procedure by the book.

 

[5twins]

Amen WB. I've tried the best I can with this guy but I'm pulling the pin. Good luck hj, maybe sticking with pedal power is best.

 

[hjpaul7]

Amen WB. I've tried the best I can with this guy but I'm pulling the pin. Good luck hj, maybe sticking with pedal power is best.

I'm a massive noob, I've never worked on anything mechanical so I'm learning., however don't pull the pin quite yet. I have figured out my screws for the back plate are very sensitive to the timing adjustment. The timing is consistent and correct now. Battery is dead, trickle charging over night. Will try to start later tomorrow.


I'm am extreme visual learner, especially when I've never attempted anything such as this. So I tend to become easily confused

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Well, you get bonus points for sticking with it. It's like brain surgery when compared to the mundane oil change, tire swap and lever adjustments. Some of us have been doing this for eons, and find it difficult (I for one) to explain it in terms understandable to the newcomer. This is where the YouTube videos and new members can help. I believe they can see things with fresh eyes and experience, and bridge the gap.

 

[XSLeo]

Ok I think you don't understand just how the system works, So here's a run down. As the engine turns counter clock wise a set of points close. This lets current pass through the coil. This builds a very strong magnetic field in the coil. Now as the engine turns the points start to open. This stops the current flow, this lets the magnetic field collapse. This collapse is what creates the very high voltage in the secondary of the coil. This high voltage is what makes the spark at the plug.
Now knowing this when you are setting the timing you want the points to just start to open when the timing mark is between the two F marks.
The points ground the coil. When closed the power goes to ground. The light bulb won't light when the power goes to ground. It lights just as the points open.
With the timing marks lined up between the two F marks, you rotate the right points plate one way and the points close, the other they open. You want to turn it so the lights not lit. Now very slowly turn it till the light just lights up. Do kit several times to verify it.
Once you get the right side do the left.
I hope this helps.
Leo

 

[hjpaul7]

I fully grasp that. What I'm saying is right at the point where the points should open at the F mark, the light is on already. So I go back up to the plate and rotate it back and forth and the light remains on. It's too advanced no matter what.

The two screws that hold the plate are really weird though, if I tighten one the light goes off, tighten the other and its back on. As if the plate isn't even.

I've also replaced the points and condenser.

 

[hmusket]

Just a couple ideas, take the cover off the advance side, (right side), and make sure the advance weights have fully retracted. Also, just watch the points as you slowly turn the crank to see if and when they are opening and closing.

I set my points a little bit differently. I do it with the ignition off and the points wires disconnected from the harness. First I gap the points and then use the continuity function of my multimeter, (it beeps for continuity). Connect one lead to the points wire, the other lead to the body of the points. When the beeping stops I know the points have opened.

 

[hjpaul7]

The weights sort of stick, so I sprayed some WD40 but it didn't seem to help a whole lot.

 

[XSLeo]

The sticky weights are probably your problem. WD40 ain't all that great. You need to remove the rod, clean it and the inside of the cam regrease the parts and put the rod back.
This should remove your stickiness.
Leo

 

[hjpaul7]

Any certain product to clean?

 

[irristeve]

If the points are doing your head in spring for a pamco set & forget but points are doable, I also have XS 750 with 3 set's of points try that LOL when I rephased the engine I couldn't afford a Pamco so moved one set of points took a lot of tinkering butt I made it work good luck keep trying it will work out eventuly