'83 Bobber, can't get it to start (video)

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retroLS1

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'83 Bobber, can't get it to start (IT'S ALIVE!)

***UPDATE: Video in post # 33***

So I have been working on getting my '83 bobber back on the road - here is my original thread:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27983

I got it to the point today where I thought it should be able to technically start. I have rewired the bike (about 90% done, just mainly turn signals and horn left to do) but I am not sure what the issue is. This is the diagram I was going off of for the most part:



I accidentally ran the brown wire from the rec/reg to the ignition switch on the diagram - it is actually wired into one of the slots on the fuse block on the bike. I have been testing power with a multimeter and I have power up at the coil with the kill switch flipped on. When I kick it over I get basically nothing. Trying to figure out where it might have gone wrong?

I am running a Pamco ignition, Ultimate coil from Mike's XS, new high tension plug wires and caps, new plugs.

Here's a video of my unsuccessfully kicking it over:


Any thoughts, ideas, or tests I can check would be greatly appreciated. Ready to fire this sucker up for the first time!
 
Thanks, I will see if I can run those tests tomorrow. In the testing procedure it says to remove the locating pin in the advance rod. Is it this one pictured here:

http://www.amckayltd.com/pcboard12.jpg

Or is it on the other side with the advance unit? The other thing is grounding a plug wire to the motor without having it installed like normal. How do you go about doing that?
 
tonyc said:
Before I kicked again I think I would put some boots on.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wasn't sure I was going to be attempting to start it so I just had some Converse shoes on haha. Will definitely put the work boots on for next round. Little better grip for sure.
 
So I ran some tests this AM, had a little time to work but not much. Tested the coil for the resistances listed on Pamco's site and they all came back OK. I disassembled the whole Pamco ignition as well as the advance unit on the other side just to see how the rod was and make sure all my locating pins were present. All pins are there and while it was out I cleaned and greased the rod.

I haven't gotten to reassemble yet, but I will do what it says on Pamco's site and reinstall without the locating pin under the Pamco rotor so I can see if I am getting spark without having to turn the motor over. Here's a couple quick pics of both units taken out. Some slight signs of oil inside both... leaky cam seals?

Pamco side



Advance unit side

 
Alright... Kid went down for a nap so I had a few mins to work. Did both Pamco spark tests - with pin out, reassembled and spun the rotor to get spark... And pin in and tried cranking over. Both tests I left one plug in and the one I was testing I held the plug threads against the motor to ground it. Neither one resulted in spark. Ignition and kill switches were on both times. I'm not sure if I'm grounding the plug the right way?

I used the multimeter to test for power and I am getting it at the Pamco circuit board (tested it on the solder on the end of the red wire I believe). Baffled!
 
In your first pic, I see a threaded points plate screw hole at the bottom, but not at the top, like this is a mismatched camcover/head combo. How are you holding the pamco plate on?
 
Not sure how the pic looks but they are both threaded - I use the factory screws to hold the Pamco plate on.

I also forgot to mention that I pulled one of the plug wires off to see if maybe I had a bad wire or cap. I tested continuity and the wire was fine. I'm not sure how to test the plug cap? I tried continuity and got nothing.
 
Ok so fingers crossed, I may have found my problem but I can't actually try and start her up until tomorrow. When I wired my Pamco, I used one of the generic diagrams I had found and stupidly didn't check the actual Pamco site before wiring. I accidentally ran the power from my kill switch to the green wire from the Pamco and ran them to one coil terminal, and then ran the red wire from the Pamco solo to the other terminal. I thought all was well but I just checked the Pamco site and saw it was the other way around - green wire should be solo, and red should merge with the power.

Hopefully I didn't fry anything in the Pamco doing this. I redid the wiring tonight and got it all hooked back up correctly. Haven't been able to give it a kick but looking forward to it in the AM. Could this have been my problem?
 
Still officially baffled by this. Just ran down to kick her up, still nothing. Pulled the left plug and it smells like fuel so it is getting gas, just no spark. I can't figure this out for the life of me now.
 
Oh, and I had better add - fired up first time (after days of frustration going through everything twice, and even re-wiring the re-wiring but the solution is so very simple).

Anlaf
 
ANLAF said:
Oh, and I had better add - fired up first time (after days of frustration going through everything twice, and even re-wiring the re-wiring but the solution is so very simple).

Anlaf
Click to expand...

Anlaf - what did you end up finding out? I tried kicking it up this morning to no avail. Same thing as the video - motor turns over but no spark. Plugged a plug and grounded it to the motor and tried kicking again, no spark to be seen.
 
Okay, RetroLS1, let's get that bike running.

1. Remove left-hand rotor/stator inspection cover.
2. remove 3 of the 4 metal screws in brush assembly (top 2 and bottom right)
3. replace with 4mm nylon screws of same length
4. replace Yamaha inspection cover.
5. Fuel on
6. Ignition on
7. check you are in neutral
8. Go for a ride with smile on your face.

ALTERNATIVELY you can purchase a new regulator rectifier, the model escapes me, but someone will dive in here and tell you.

The theory is that the wiring you (and me, too) are using doesn't have in it the usual safety relays etc so those three metal screws ground the whole charging circuit.

NOTE nylon screws, not plastic - NYLON. If the local hardware store doesn't have nylon screws get them ordered online for next to nothing.

Anlaf
 
Ah interesting. Would those prevent it from starting up at all? I had seen those nylon screws mentioned here and there on this forum, but didn't know what purpose they served.
 
As I see it, you have a bike that isn't going anywhere - put in the nylon screws which prevent the grounding you are suffering (no spark, no spark, no spark) and get riding that bike.

Anlaf
 
I sure hope so. I PMed another member here that had some extras for sale. Would be great if that is the issue!
 
Anlaf,

Did you have the same problem I have - bike was not starting at all due to lack of spark? Only reason I ask is from everything I've read on the nylon screws, they are important for the charging system and I wasn't sure if they would have an affect on the ignition system. I hate chasing electrical gremlins haha
 
Pulled the stator cover off a few mins ago and pulled out one of those 3 screws holding the brushes on to see how long they were. Looks like approximately 7/16"-1/2" long. I believe I had read they were M4, fine thread It looks like. I'll have to see if I can find some locally. Here's a shot of the assembly with the cover off...

null_zps9419127f.jpg
 

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