anyone tried this starter fix?

[gonefishin485]

i was poking around on 650central, and came across this.

http://http://www.650central.com/felectric_starter_fix_without_gea.htm

he claims you can fix the starter troubles by bending a clip.

which clip is he talking about though? id like to try it on mine since mine grinds and slips out, but im not exactly sure what clip or piece he's talking about.

 

[yamaman]

Good reading HERE for you!

Not sure how this thread missed a trip to the tech section Travis!

 

[Travis]

I'm not sure either! I'll add it soon.

 

[5twins]

I applied this free fix 4 or 5 years ago and it's worked very well for me. Before that, my starter was a grindin' fool. After the fix, it would grind very rarely and very seldom kick out. What really fixed it was a tip from Pamcopete about totally removing the little coil return spring. I did that about a year ago and the starter has never worked better. No more kick-outs or grinding at all. According to Pete the spring isn't needed, the gear retracts fine on it's own just by centrifugal force. The spring actually impedes full engagement of the #4 gear to the crank gear and adds to the grinding problem.

The spring to remove is #2 in the picture below. The clip you bend tighter is #3.

 

[Downer]

has anyone else removed the number 2 spring and not had any problems? im in the midst of fixing this problem and wondering if its safe?

 

[XSLeo]

I put a new #3 clip on mine. I stretched the return spring to tighten it a bit. #2. my starter never misses or grinds. Cranks the 750 over just fine.
You can get new #3 clips off Ebay for about $3 + shipping.

 

[xjwmx]

Sounds like remove the #2 spring or make it stronger, doesn't make much difference. I have heard of putting a small hose clamp around the end of #3 to keep it tight, on a Virago.

 

[rude]

Is the "grind" you guys are describing the noise after the bike has fired, sounds like the starter motor is still engaged? that's what I have, can last 1 to 3 seconds after firing.
Just to clarify if I remove "the little coil return spring" #2 in the diagram, this will solve this noise problem?

 

[xjwmx]

No, that's optional. The main thing is to tighten #3. #2 is to help it disengage and you're having trouble disengaging, so you might want to do what Leo did? Also, I remember xsjohn complaining that the replacement #3 although initially tighter was weaker. He suggested re-using the old #3, but tightening it.

 

[Downer]

Yea it's an option but do you guys recommend removing it all together?

 

[xjwmx]

If your starter was having trouble disengaging, then maybe not only leave it on but stretch it to make it stronger. It if was having trouble engaging, then it might make sense to remove it.

 

[XSLeo]

Rude, The noise we are talking about is as the starter engages. I don't think removing the return spring will help.
The older safety relays could be adjusted for the cutout voltage. On the later models where the safety relay turns the headlight on aren't.
When you use the starter, the safety relay turns the starter off when the engine starts. IT tells when the engine starts by the voltage on the yellow wire from the stator. As the engine starts the alternator starts making voltage. When this voltage on the yellow wire reaches 2.5 volts the safety relay cuts the power to the start relay thus turning the starter off. Depending on the adjustment of the safety relay it may not cut out at 2.5 volts. It may not cut out till 5 or more volts. If the engine is running before the safety relay cuts out then the starter stays running and the gears grind.
On the safety relay pull the cover off. There is a spring on the side that pulls the contacts closed. If you bend the mounts to loosen the spring it lowers the cut out voltage.
To test mine I hooked 2 aa batteries in series to get 2.5 volts. Adjusted the spring to get the relay to just operate when I hooked the batteries to it. I also checked it with three batteries, 4.5 volts. I got muine to work with two batteries but not with three. So the cut out voltage is between 2.5 and 4.5 volts. Closer to the 2.5 volts.
This helped stop the over running grinding.
Between the new clip, stretching the return spring and adjusting the safety relay my starter is quite. And as I said it cranks my 750 over just fine.

 

[rude]

Thanks XSLeo I never considered the safety relay and it's role, I'll be looking at that tonight
cheers

 

[wideload]

My #4 gear's teeth had at least 25% maybe 33% worn off the inside. I did not have the $ to buy a replacement kit. I used a vice grip so that I could control the addition of tension to the #3 clip. I stretched out the #2 return spring a bit before reassembly. I would say that even with the worn teeth it starts perfectly 9 times out of 10.

 

[xjwmx]

My #4 gear's teeth had at least 25% maybe 33% worn off...addition of tension to the #3 clip....I would say that even with the worn teeth it starts perfectly 9 times out of 10.

That's what the first link says (once you fix the link). I was reading that the other day.

 

[5twins]

Well, I've had that #2 return spring removed for the last couple seasons but am thinking about putting it back in. The starter works fine but if I put the bike on the sidestand while it's idling, I get some intermittent rattling out of the right side cover. I think the gears in that #4 assembly are sliding into the crank gear without the spring in there.

 

[oldbiker]

hi guys i knew a guy in maffra victoria australia,,, and he had a xs650 rephased motor anyway he actually built his own electronic ignition using a car ignition of some sort BUT,, he took it off the crank on the end of it ran like a charm when he did rephase the crank he moved it 3 splines .. he also repositioned the standard wek spring just by slipping it around about 1 1/2" to the new position . i took it for a spin around orbost and going round a corner reasonably slow ,,,,listerning to the duke sound coming out the dual exhausts i nearly dropped it.. of course i didn,t need to tell him that and every thing ended well regards oldbiker