Bad TCI box, or ground shorting somewhere?

[barelycompetent]

Ok here I am again lol. So I got a new battery for my bike after I sent the ballistic evo back to ballistic, still waiting on word from them. I put the battery in and the bike fired right up and ran normally. I put it in the battery box, remounted the battery box and fired the bike up and I had the same problem as before, the bike wont go over 3.5 t 4k rpms. So I started thinking the ground strap was kinked, or broken internally. This is the ground that goes from the battery terminal to the frame. I undid from the frame and moved it another location, fired the bike up and still had the same problem, wont rev up. While the bike was running I unhooked the ground completely and the bike ran normally and rev'ed right up. So it seems to me that I am grounding out and shorting somewhere but I dont know where, or my TCI is going out. Im not sure which. I tried making another ground wire and hooking it up to the frame again, but the bike will not rev up until I unhook the battery ground. What does this sound like to you guys? Grounding and shorting out somewhere, or TCI box going out? Ive also been looking over the wiring diagrams to get an idea on where to start looking for a short. Appreciate the help, and hate it that I have to keep starting new threads lol.

 

[pamcopete]

Try unplugging the regulator as a test.

 

[barelycompetent]

Ok so I did two things here. I put a gel battery in and the bike fired and ran normally. I put the anti gravity lithium replacement battery I just bought and the bike wont rev up. I unplugged the regulator Pete and the bike ran normally, rev'ed right up. Would that indicate my TCI or my regulator? Or a ground somewhere in between there?

 

[barelycompetent]

Just cleaned and greased all of the connections to the TCI and the reg/rec and still the same problem. Unplug the reg/rec and the bike runs fine. Is it the lithium battery? The reg/rec cant keep up with it, but does just fine with the gel battery? Or is the reg/rec just bad? Or is the TCI bad? Im lost now, and getting frustrated so Im going to walk away now.

 

[pamcopete]

barely...,

Disconnecting the regulator eliminates the magnetic field from the rotor that can influence the TCI pickups. You could have a bad ground somewhere or the connections to the pickups are bad, most likely in the plug / socket that connects the pickups. The other possibility is simply a weak magnet in the rotor, which can be fixed by epoxying a new magnet on top of the existing magnet. It could also be the battery, as you have discovered.

 

[barelycompetent]

Hmmm ok. I know the rotor is good because it was just replaced. I did all of the checks for the charging system, ohm'ed the rotor, it was good, slap test was good, stator test checked good, with a good battery in the bike the reg/rec showed 14.5volts when rev'ed to 4k, but only showed 13.75 with the ballistic evo battery. Now with the anti gravity battery it initially started just fine, but is now doing the same thing again. So is there a way to test the pickups? Why would the bike run fine with a gel battery but not the lithium battery? Can the pickups be replaced? Thanks for getting back to me Pete, I do appreciate it.

 

[pamcopete]

barely...,

It's not the rotor per se. It's the tiny embedded magnet in the rotor that triggers the pickup that I am referring to.

If one battery works and the other doesn't, then I would use the battery that works.

 

[DIRTY DOG]

YES THE PICK UP CAN BE REPLACED(sorry cap loc was on) put the gell battery bac in does it run ok may the new battery is bad also( I got 2 bad gell battery in a row)
are you running stock wiring harness? check the magnet on the rotor should stick a screw driver to it. I may have one, also have a black box if you need one

 

[barelycompetent]

Well I appreciate the advice Pete. The problem with that is I designed and built the bike around the lithium battery, small, compact and easily hid. The gel battery I have wont fit or work in my current setup, I was only using it for testing purposes. The ballistic evo battery that I had worked just fine for the last 3-4months. The issues with my bike only recently started when I noticed my battery connections had come loose and I tightened them back up, thats when it started and would not rev over 4k. I really want to put your system in some day but its just not in the cards right now, so I really want to figure out why it will run with one battery but not the other. The lithium anti gravity battery is brand new, just got it yesterday. If something is fried or burned out, I want to fix that rather then just go with the battery that works. I mean no disrespect by that either, Im just frustrated to no end with this.

 

[barelycompetent]

Dirty yes I am running stock wiring harness, all stock charging and ignition system. The anti gravity battery is brand new, it fired and ran the bike fine one time. I shut it off, put in the battery box and remounted it and started the bike up and my problems reappeared. Which initially led me to believe it was a bad ground wire.

 

[pamcopete]

barely...,

You do know that the battery box is not grounded? It is suspended by the four rubber bushings, so if you are grounding the battery to the battery box, it is not grounded.

 

[barelycompetent]

Yes I do know that Pete. The battery is not grounded to the box, the positive side is coming from the solenoid, and the ground is coming from the frame directly to the negative post on the battery.

 

[barelycompetent]

I should also mention Pete that this is a custom battery box I made to hold the ballistic evo battery and mounted it under the mounting board that I used to mount my cafe rear section. Again like I side the battery initially worked and worked well for a couple of months, but due to the bad ground connections I think I fried something out somewhere and I still cant figure out how a gel battery can work but a lithium cant.

 

[barelycompetent]

Ok so I calmed down, grabbed a beer, took a shower and Im feeling alot better. If it is the magnet on the rotor, could someone show me pics of where this magnet is? I have read threads about replacing it but for the life of me I cant find them now, of course when I need it the most lol. If the magnet is good is there a way to test the pickup? I appreciate all of the advice and info, I tend to get frustrated very easily. From what I can gather though I am leaning towards it being a pickup. I cleaned and greased the connections from it and still the same problems. To me, and Im guessing here, that makes me think its the pickup, but I would love to try the magnet fix first to make sure, just need to know where it is. Thanks again, and Pete I know you are the guru on these systems and your system is a great one that I will eventually go to, but I really want to get this bike up and going again as I am hitting the tail of the dragon in 3 weeks and want to take this bike, so an upgrade isnt in the cards, time and money wise right now.

 

[pamcopete]

barely...,

I don't think that if it was the trigger magnet it would make any difference which battery you used. I think what has happened is the ballistic battery is now toast, even though it initially worked, and now without a good battery to act as a stabilizer, the regulator is going ape S$%^ and producing an erratic voltage which is affecting the TCI. If so, then it would get worse at higher RPM's, which is what you are experiencing. What is the Amp Hour rating for that battery?

 

[barelycompetent]

Pete you think the battery would fry after just one use? I guess anything is possible, the battery still reads good voltage at 13.5 which is what the last evo battery was reading at, but that battery lasted several months before it went all wonky, not just one time use. Anyway the amp hour rating for the anti gravity battery I currently have is 9ah, with 240cca. I dont know the rating on the gel battery I am using. I dont know how long I was riding with the evo battery and the terminals being loose. All of this happened as soon as I tightened up the ground cable to the battery again. Would riding with a loose connection fry something out? I appreciate all the help Pete, I hope to get this thing back up and on the road soon. I may have to bite the bullet and go with your complete system, its just 550 dollars I dont have or want to spend right now lol.

 

[pamcopete]

Take the battery somewhere it can be load tested. I don't think you need a PAMCO just yet.

 

[barelycompetent]

Well I am fortunate enough to have about 4-5 different automotive stores within 5 minutes of my house and I just hit all of them but no one has the capabilities to load test a lithium battery. There is a custom bike shop, that has a large battery store right next door but they are both closed on sundays. Guess I will have to wait till tomorrow to check with them. I still want to make sure my pickup is good so is there a way to test that, while using the gel battery of course?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Well, I guess I'll toss in with the bizarre. Kinda hard to explain, but thinking along the lines of a battery that presents itself as a hi-impedance load in an AC (or noisy DC) environment.

The 3-phase, full-wave, 12vdc charging system doesn't really put out a pure DC voltage, there's a ripple around 300 mv that is usually damped by a storage device that absorbs that ripple. Add in the current spikes of the ignition system and you could have a real noisy DC line that can challenge a potentially overstressed regulator and/or TCI.

Kinda hard to explain, but it's like the 300 ohm twinlead used on old tv antennas and 75 ohm coax used with cable tv. Those are the effective resistances of those lines in an RF environment, but show near 0 ohm resistance when tested with a DC multimeter.

We used to experience the bizarre similar to yours (fine with one good battery, goofs-up on another good battery), but with power supply storage, smoothing, and decoupling capacitors. Our lab tests showed that various capacitor material and construction types were unsuitable in certain designs due to their inability to properly absorb/damp certain kinds of DC noise, and often the solution was to either use a different capacitor or pair it with one that targeted the problem zone.

Just thinking out loud here with your good/bad battery mystery. The bad battery may test fine, and actually work fine on another bike. So that leaves the regulator, and possibly the TCI, as the weak link. Either one may have been partially damaged such that it works fine with one battery that absorbs the DC 'noise', but goes goofy in a 'noisy' DC environment.

Need a scope to confirm this, but I suppose a suitable test would be to have a way to temporarily connect/disconnect the 'good' battery in parallel with the installed suspect battery, run the engine, and see if the 'rev limiter' syndrome persists while connecting/disconnecting the 'good' battery...

 

[Newagerocker]

Barelycompetent,

Bad pickup coils can result in unusual and erratic symptoms. I had to replace one on my '83 Heritage Special. To test the pickup coils turn the engine OFF, disconnect the pickup coil connector, measure resistance between the black/white lead and white/red lead, then measure between black/white lead and the white/green lead. Both values should measure between 550-850 ohms, if not replace the PU coils. Also check connectors for corrosion or bad contact.

Pete says: "I think what has happened is the ballistic battery is now toast"

I have to agree with Pete, you may have toasted your new battery with that bad ground connection and may have taken some other components with it, TCI. PU coils, etc.