Battery problems...is this why???

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Inevitable

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So over the last several months I have been about 99% on my build process.

There is one thing holding me back....electrical. I have run through the wiring, my PMA, and my PAMCO, more times then I care to tell you here. I have even called Hugh and everything registers out correctly on the volt meter and he has even signed off on the wiring diagram....

Let me back up and tell you what is going on with my bike. After the battery is charged, it will start and run the bike fine (estart) however after about 24 hours the bike is very...and I do mean very sluggish starting with the estart, and then after a little bit of ridding will die on me. I have had this thing towed at least 5 times now...and it has become very discouraging so any help with this would be helpful.

So I was looking over the specs for my battery today, and the specs needed to run what I need.

I currently have a head lamp, brake light, and e-start...thats it. All of this powered by a 8-cell anti gravity battery. This is the page with its specifications on it.

http://antigravitybatteries.com/ag-801/

That being said I just read over a forum here that said that in order for the battery to support an estart it needs at least 12-14 ah...what that means is beyond me. I'll be the first to say I am the worst with electrical stuff...

Could the reason I am having so many issues be because the anti gravity battery, only supports 9ah????

I need the battery to be small, as I had a custom battery box made for its specific size.

If that is indeed the case (which I am going to kick myself in the foot, if it is)

Will this work?

http://www.shoraipower.com/s.nl/it.A/id.91/.f

Thanks again guys...hoping to get this worked out soon...to much summer has already been wasted not on a bike =(
 
Oh and these are the specs of the battery box I had made by Voodoo Vintage
 

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The shorai battery has been known to work for many with the electric start same with the battery you have which even has more cranking amps. The AH is amp hours which is basically the capacity of the battery I don't think changing batteries just for the AH would solve your problem. There is something else going on, when it's warmed up the battery is probably charged fully, and starter is turning more freely and so on. I would check all your connections for cleanliness and tightness. Cleaning the starter system from starter to through all of the gears may be helpful also clean and lube everything and make sure it is all adjusted properly.
 
Well have the battery load checked to see if it is performing like it should be. Sounds like this will be your issue then if all else is good, especially if the battery has been around for a while and not used frequently or properly maintained with a battery tender. I am sure you will find that to be the fix, I can always tell on my HD when the battery is starting to go does exactly what your explaining.
 
Are you sure your charging system is working? An under powered or bad battery might cause the e-start issues but the PMA should keep the bike running I would think if it's working correctly.
 
Get a volt meter, wire it in, ride the bike, find out if it's charging.

Then load test the battery I think we have seen 10-15 threads of guys with new batteries that were junk. It has even (GASP) happened to me. Well my wife's Shadow anyways.
 
I'm with grinder on this one. Before you spend another $200 for a new high tech battery, I would somehow lash a voltmeter to the handlebars and check the battery voltage while riding with the revs up.
 
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clip off the lighter adapter wire it in, done $6.50 probably find one down at autozone too.

I keep one on the bench, check bikes and other stuff with it all the time. Now I use the cool little LED indicators on my XS's so I always know my charging system is on the job....
 
Does that hook up to the battery or to the charger?

Again, I am not the greatest with electrical stuff.

If its to the battery, then I've kept a volt meter hooked up to it with the bike on the bench and reved the engine to higher RPMs for about 10-12 mins, and the meter did fluctuate, however it returned to its original voltage when it leveled off...when I say fluctuate it was only by .05v-.10v of the original volts.

As I said earlier I got on the horn with Hugh and everything worked out with the meters.

Would it test differently if I had it on the road instead of on the bench rev'ing up the engine?

Another symptom, I forgot to mention was when the bike dies on me, it will start to sputter. I will be ridding, with the engine sounding great, good torque, good speed, good transition through the gears, but the last 5 mins before it dies it will just start to sputter, as if the engine was losing its fire then re-firing. Then it will just completely cut off with all electrical aspects (lamp, brake light, estart) just fading out.

Thank you guys for the help by the way this really is starting to get to me =(
 
Inevitable, sounds like you just have a charging problem. If the wiring is good (including the all-important grounds), the problem may be just one of the components. It helps a great deal if you report the actual battery voltage reading during various tests, not differences. Do you know what the rectifier is, what it does, and how to test it? If you have the newer regulator/rectifier box, do you have the correct one for PMA?
 
TwoMany is right - I use my multimeter to test the battery standing, and then what it reads at idle, and then a reading at 3000ish revs. My battery reads around 12.6v standing, same-ish at idle, and around 13.85 plus at 3000 revs. That way I know there is some juice going in, and my charging system is good.

I am waiting for the delivery of my PMA from Hugh - that comes with a rectifier. Yes, TwoMany hits the nail on the head again, that's an important item to know about and check if you know the charging system is not getting juice to the battery.

Anlaf
 
Inevitable said:
Does that hook up to the battery or to the charger?

If its to the battery, then I've kept a volt meter hooked up to it with the bike on the bench and reved the engine to higher RPMs for about 10-12 mins, and the meter did fluctuate, however it returned to its original voltage when it leveled off...when I say fluctuate it was only by .05v-.10v of the original volts.

Would it test differently if I had it on the road instead of on the bench revving up the engine?
Click to expand...

Did you have the headlight operating on the bench? The headlight will draw the most current of any other component in the electrical system, so your charging system has to be able to power the headlight and maintain 14.5 on the battery as you go zipping down the road.

Would it test differently on the road? Well, we could debate that for three or four more days or you could simply do as was suggested and eliminate that from the list of possibilities.
 
I know what a regulator/recifier is, or at least I know what it looks like, and from my understanding it is used to regulate the charging and power out put of the stator and battery.

As far as how to test it...nope, don't know how to test it other then what Hugh and I talked about.

As far as what kind of regulator/rectifier it is, its the one that came with the Hugh's PMA kit
 
On a PMA reg/rec the 3 phase AC coming from the stator is converted to DC for the bike. This creates some heat. The reg/rec controls output voltage by diverting the voltage above 14.5 volts directly to ground through a large resistor. This resistor converts the excess voltage to heat. This heat is expelled through the fins of the reg/rec.
Do you have your reg/rec inside your the round part of your battery box? if so that could be the problem. The reg/rec needs good air flow around it to keep it cool. Inside a box you get no airflow. When the reg/rec gets too hot the output could be dropping enough so the battery goes dead.
I have a 750 kit in my 75. With the stock battery it cranked a bit sluggishly. I replaced it with the 8 cell Ballistic Battery. It cranks it great. The 75 extra cranking amps really spins it well.
The amp hour rating of a battery is an indicator of how long a battery will hold up to a current draw before going dead. The 14 amp hour means it can withstand a 14 amp draw for 1 hour.
The Ballistic Battery 8 cell has a 4.6 AH rating but being lithium it's rated differently. It has a lead acid equivalent rating of 15 AH.
I don't think it's the battery but contact Ballistic Batteries and talk the them.
Leo
 
Yeah, hook a volt meter up and go for a ride. (hook the leads of the volt meter straight to the battery for testing) Normal operation should look like:

discharging (less than 13.6 volts) below 2500-3000 rpm
charging (greater than 13.6 volts, lower than 14.9 volts) above 3000 rpm
Idling approximately 11.5 volts - 12.5 volts.

You may also see it drop down once the battery is fully charged, even above 3000 rpm.

And, it's NOT good enough to just test it in your driveway, revving the engine. You HAVE to go for a ride, at highway speeds. Around town you often won't get the sustained high rpms needed to fully charge.*

*note - this is based on the stock charging system, not the PMA. But you should see effectively the same thing.
 
Inevitable said:
If its to the battery, then I've kept a volt meter hooked up to it with the bike on the bench and reved the engine to higher RPMs for about 10-12 mins, and the meter did fluctuate, however it returned to its original voltage when it leveled off...when I say fluctuate it was only by .05v-.10v of the original volts.


(
Click to expand...


so, what you are saying is that you test the battery with the engine off and get 12.6ish volts (that's what it should be if fully charged, 12.5 - 13 volts).

Then you start the engine and it reads, again, about 12.6 volts.

Then you rev it up to say 4000 rpm for 10-12 min, amazingly don't blow it up or burn it up...and the volt meter reads 12.7 volts max?

If yes, then you are NOT charging at all. It will go to 14.7 volts if it's charging. Anything below 13.6 volts is NOT charging. So, either something's wrong with the PMA, with your wiring or with your connections.

Dirty connections are a killer. Send me an email at punkmotorcycles (at) gmail and I'll send you a couple of troubleshooting guides for standard motorcycle charging systems. Give you some more help with this.
 

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