Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
The "bush master " is supposed to be a hunting rifle . That is the gun that did the damage.
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BIG MOUTH with a microphone!
- Thread starter I am Carbon
- Start date
JAGUARGOD
XS650 Addict
Right,,,that is what the mainstream media is reporting. But , I read another account of pistols found in the school and NO rifle. The long gun found outside in the trunk was a shotgun not an assault rifle and unfired. i am looking for more info or proof.
littlebill31
Smells of Raw Fuel
The media makes it seem as though many of us are paranoid gun nuts. We are not. You see nuts use a gun to kill and that is all people know about guns. You never see all the other people who go hunting and target shooting everyday. Having a good, safe, responsible time. Of course the lowest selling video "gun type" games are the shooting gallery, target type. Number one is the "Black Ops" pretend to kill humans games.
Crazy people are just crazy. Guns are dangerous. If you are stable enough to know the difference, then you are probably not going to kill someone. My father wouldn't let me use a chainsaw until I was about 12. But I started shooting at 5. More control over what I was doing with the gun.
As for people who should not own guns. First and foremost, it is a right. And until they change the Constitution, no matter what people say or how many people do not agree, it will remain a right. But we do have laws in place to curb bad people from getting a gun. However, they do not work and bad people keep getting guns. Just like certain mentally ill, which is a hot topic due to several of those mass killers being seen by different doctors and being severally mentally ill. The Aurora killer saw 3 before the movie theater incident. (Which, by the way, PPD, Paranoid Personality Disorder, is a mental illness and is in the DSM-IV). DSM-V will have "Hoarding" in there this year. So, are these people dangerous crazy? Should they not be allowed to own a gun because they "hoard" stuff? They are mentally ill, not sociopaths, but they are mentally ill. A felony charge for writing bad checks prohibits you from buying a gun, same as murder. Two totally different things in my opinion, but still felonies. However, you can't label mentally ill either. It is against privacy policies to "point out" mentally ill people, so how do you distinguish who is sane and who is not? Who understands the dangerous nature of a gun and who does not? If you tell someone that a person was institutionalized, then you get in trouble for breaking the privacy laws. A sociopath will not care anyway and just kill no matter what. It's in their MO. You can only do so much for people. You can't hold their hand all the time and watch their every move. And if they check out via the FBI then you can't stop a legal person from buying a gun. You can't stop a person because you don't like them or think they shouldn't own one either. You will have a discrimination suit slapped on you so fast your head will spin. You can't tell someone they can't buy a car because they have a bunch of tickets or a suspended license can you? Nope. You can take away their legal privilege of driving, but they can still own a car and will probably drive it.
Delaware, this past July, ended calling the State Police for an addition state check when buying a handgun. It cost too much to do. Yep, ended an addition gun check because of funding.
I sell fishing/hunting licenses at work. Your head pop if you saw all the people who present their ID (Have to present it by law) to get a license and they are not allowed to drive. They drove to the store though. So, I've called the cops on a couple. Some even stunk of booze. The police couldn't do anything unless they made a moving violation. Can't pull someone over for nothing. Discrimination. And, if they are "of color", then it is a "racial profiling" charge. By the time the cops got there the people were long gone anyway.
It is a very fine line to stop someone from obtaining something without just cause or evidence. And a very fine line to change an entire culture because there are crazies using an item to do bad things. Just like the 18th and 21st Amendments.
The press will always try to find the most crazy person to speak about a subject too. Just look at our elected officials. There is a good reason they have those jobs.
Crazy people are just crazy. Guns are dangerous. If you are stable enough to know the difference, then you are probably not going to kill someone. My father wouldn't let me use a chainsaw until I was about 12. But I started shooting at 5. More control over what I was doing with the gun.
As for people who should not own guns. First and foremost, it is a right. And until they change the Constitution, no matter what people say or how many people do not agree, it will remain a right. But we do have laws in place to curb bad people from getting a gun. However, they do not work and bad people keep getting guns. Just like certain mentally ill, which is a hot topic due to several of those mass killers being seen by different doctors and being severally mentally ill. The Aurora killer saw 3 before the movie theater incident. (Which, by the way, PPD, Paranoid Personality Disorder, is a mental illness and is in the DSM-IV). DSM-V will have "Hoarding" in there this year. So, are these people dangerous crazy? Should they not be allowed to own a gun because they "hoard" stuff? They are mentally ill, not sociopaths, but they are mentally ill. A felony charge for writing bad checks prohibits you from buying a gun, same as murder. Two totally different things in my opinion, but still felonies. However, you can't label mentally ill either. It is against privacy policies to "point out" mentally ill people, so how do you distinguish who is sane and who is not? Who understands the dangerous nature of a gun and who does not? If you tell someone that a person was institutionalized, then you get in trouble for breaking the privacy laws. A sociopath will not care anyway and just kill no matter what. It's in their MO. You can only do so much for people. You can't hold their hand all the time and watch their every move. And if they check out via the FBI then you can't stop a legal person from buying a gun. You can't stop a person because you don't like them or think they shouldn't own one either. You will have a discrimination suit slapped on you so fast your head will spin. You can't tell someone they can't buy a car because they have a bunch of tickets or a suspended license can you? Nope. You can take away their legal privilege of driving, but they can still own a car and will probably drive it.
Delaware, this past July, ended calling the State Police for an addition state check when buying a handgun. It cost too much to do. Yep, ended an addition gun check because of funding.
I sell fishing/hunting licenses at work. Your head pop if you saw all the people who present their ID (Have to present it by law) to get a license and they are not allowed to drive. They drove to the store though. So, I've called the cops on a couple. Some even stunk of booze. The police couldn't do anything unless they made a moving violation. Can't pull someone over for nothing. Discrimination. And, if they are "of color", then it is a "racial profiling" charge. By the time the cops got there the people were long gone anyway.
It is a very fine line to stop someone from obtaining something without just cause or evidence. And a very fine line to change an entire culture because there are crazies using an item to do bad things. Just like the 18th and 21st Amendments.
The press will always try to find the most crazy person to speak about a subject too. Just look at our elected officials. There is a good reason they have those jobs.
littlebill31
Smells of Raw Fuel
See, we do have laws against high capacity magazines. The 30 rnd magazine is "illegal" in Washington D.C.
David Gregory presented one while talking to the NRA on "Meet the Press", which is filmed in D.C. and is now under investigation.
Now, let's see if these "LAWS" are enforced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50297849#.UNt2IxjTRaU
David Gregory presented one while talking to the NRA on "Meet the Press", which is filmed in D.C. and is now under investigation.
Now, let's see if these "LAWS" are enforced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50297849#.UNt2IxjTRaU
I'd be quite surprised if anything came of it as he's not one of the 'unwashed masses'.....though he is an a-hole.
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
Gun laws do work in most places that have them . They work pretty good here in Canada , but they could be better . I still say the biggest problem is the so called " law abiding gun owners " that have no problem selling guns to criminals . Gun owners need to be held responsible for every gun they buy . Here in Canada target shooters store their handguns and restricted weapons at the shooting range . They need a permit to transport a gun .
Seriously , does some woman living in a very safe area need to have several guns laying around the house just because she "enjoys target shooting ?" Guns are made to kill , target shooting is just practice killing . If you want a challenging weapon to target shoot with buy a sling shot , much harder to master than a gun and no risk of it being used for murder .
Goliath would argue that point.
Do any of us need an xs650, or more than one. The same applies to firearms. It's not a matter of need. No one really needs a firearm. We can just be sheep and let the government think for us, feed us, cloth us.
I for one can think for myself, I don't need the government running my life. I own firerms, I shoot at targets, I shoot game, I fish, I feed and cloth myself.
Leo
I for one can think for myself, I don't need the government running my life. I own firerms, I shoot at targets, I shoot game, I fish, I feed and cloth myself.
Leo
uebe
XS Goober
Yes. Our inmates are only allowed to watch basic cable. Oh, the inhumanity !
This like saying throwing a baseball is just practice throwing a rock to kill a rabbit. And then saying to play baseball with boomerangs because it's much harder to master.
And driving is just practice for running somebody over.
In countries where guns are not natural the idea of them evoke the bizarre. What kind of adult is afraid of guns, or of the water, or of the dark, or... That's honestly how we see you guys. And then you tell us we should be afraid of the dark. Ain't going to happen. Might get legislated. Probably will. But won't happen any other way.
I can't believe you said that. Comparing the owning of a classic vehicle to a weapon that kills 9000 people a year
In the last few years the gov't has changed laws that have eroded your basic rights of freedom under the guise of terrorism laws. you can be detained without any representation or rights and can be shipped to another country and tortured, (without any one knowing, friends family or your lawyer), because the laws in your own country don't allow torture, yet your constitution has been changed to allow that, you have machines that strip you naked at airports. No one is complaining about their civil liberties being eroded there. Does it make you safer.
I am in no way taking away the horror and the devastation of the twin towers and lives lost, but the liberties that have been eroded are a direct consequence of that in order to make you feel safer.
3000 people lost their lives and no one wants that to happen again but 9000 people per year are killed with guns yet no one wants to have their rights infringed on so that maybe in some way that toll may be reduced
Is that 9000 home invasion rapes that didn't happen, or what?
I don't carry a gun, but I feel safer because everyone knows I could be. I have no chance of getting gang whooped and left in a ditch, Aussie style.
Conversely I do not feel more in danger because anyone else might have one. Give most people credit for having enough restraint to not use it except in self-defense.
You make ill informed references about other people and countries yet when questioned you evade the question then make some other vague statements.
You say "In countries where guns are not natural the idea of them evoke the bizarre." i presume you are saying a country where guns are natural would be classed as having a gun culture. Are you taking about America? if you are i am confused because you stated earlier that the US did not[/B] have a gun culture
i presume you are saying a country where guns are natural would be classed as having a gun culture. Are you taking about America? if you are i am confused because you stated earlier that the US did not[/B] have a gun culture
"Gun culture" implies a culture that revolves around guns. Ours does not. Guns are as natural as trees here, yet we are not a tree culture.
But of course if you focus on it to the exclusion of everything else then our culture does revolve around trees and we are a tree culture. We use them for paper, we use them to build houses. Millions of them. And so we are a tree culture. The term gun culture is just anti-gun media noise.
Not hard to find out what i said about the 9000 deaths.
1 story of 1 American getting bashed up doesn't make a culture and i answered my thoughts on the culture behind that story.
Some, actually no a lot of articles written about the 9000 deaths caused by guns actually state that 9000 murders per year are committed by guns In fact murders are a small percentage.
I challenge you to tell us what is the leading cause of gun deaths in America
There are 350,000,000 guns in America. 88.8 percent. i think the next country in the word has 57 percent
Yea America has a gun culture
Yea America has a gun culture
There is something deeply resentful in people who have been denied the right to protect themselves and they want those who haven't been denied to give up the right, it seems to me. Otherwise they'd just worry about their own country instead of ours.
littlebill31
Smells of Raw Fuel
Well, alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine all have no real value, other than as a stimulant. You don't need them. They just hurt your body if abused. Some would say they only mask reality too. Zero positive uses. Only years later were medical uses found. But as adults we are able to make these decisions. I know a gun is dangerous and what it was designed to do. I also know what alcohol does. So I use my brain and don't shoot people or get piss ass drunk. Been doing it all my life.
I, for one, refuse to allow my government to tell me what to do. There is a difference between a "right" and a "privilege".
I also will argue a case, from both sides. I see good gun laws and I see bad gun laws. Selling a gun to a felon is illegal. I know that. But it's not going to stop others from doing it.
Buying a gun that is unregistered is illegal too. Unfortunately there is no law in place to make it so you have to transfer a gun, from a private sale, through an FFL if it is in the same state. There are laws in place that you cannot ship or "Interstate Transfer" a gun unless it is through an FFL though. Basically, if you buy one online, from a private person, then they need to ship it from an FFL in their state to your FFL of choice in your state. If you drive to another state and buy a gun, in your name, then you may drive it back. But, this is only allowed for long gun sales and not for pistols.
You can go to a gun shop and do the transfer for private, same state sales though. Which I do. This protects me and proves the buyer is legally able to own a gun. Protects both parties. Worth the $25.00 to me. But not many people do this. I am not going to sell a gun to some Joe Schmo without knowing if he is legal. Nor am I going to buy a gun unless I know it is not stolen. These things are in place for our protection and a "paper trail". However, they are not used by many people. The laws are there, just not used, not known and not enforced.
And transporting a gun in my, and several of my surrounding states, is only allowed if the gun is locked, in a case, in a separate part of the vehicle. "Out of arms reach". And the ammo needs to be locked in an opposite part of the vehicle from the gun. Do these laws get misused? Oh ya. Everyday.
I own, and use, a very large safe. All my guns and valuables are in there. They are not laying around on the kitchen table or something. Guns are actually supposed to be locked and out of the reach of minors in the home. You can get in some serious trouble, felony charges, if a minor gets a hold of your gun and commits a crime.
But are these laws and rules adhered too? No and it's an unfortunate reality.
My younger brother overdosed on his friends grandmothers pain pills. They were supposed to be locked up, but they found a way into the little safe to get them. Do I blame the pills? No. I blame the lack of education and common sense they had. I blame their indiscretion.
There is an old saying, "It takes a village to raise a child". My family educated me very well as I grew up. I learned a lot of things and did some stupid shit. Subjects like guns, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, driving, machinery, tools, and just how to live and being an adult are all learned traits. They are not instincts. I am glad I was told about what certain things could do. My parents held nothing back from me. They did not shield my eyes to the horrors and distresses of life. They would never tell me something was bad unless they actually knew either. That's just lying to your kids. If I would ask my father if I could go do something he wouldn't make up a lie. He would tell me like it was. "I don't trust you alone with....." whatever it was. I'm thankful he did that.
Education and knowledge are the only defense against fear.
I, for one, refuse to allow my government to tell me what to do. There is a difference between a "right" and a "privilege".
I also will argue a case, from both sides. I see good gun laws and I see bad gun laws. Selling a gun to a felon is illegal. I know that. But it's not going to stop others from doing it.
Buying a gun that is unregistered is illegal too. Unfortunately there is no law in place to make it so you have to transfer a gun, from a private sale, through an FFL if it is in the same state. There are laws in place that you cannot ship or "Interstate Transfer" a gun unless it is through an FFL though. Basically, if you buy one online, from a private person, then they need to ship it from an FFL in their state to your FFL of choice in your state. If you drive to another state and buy a gun, in your name, then you may drive it back. But, this is only allowed for long gun sales and not for pistols.
You can go to a gun shop and do the transfer for private, same state sales though. Which I do. This protects me and proves the buyer is legally able to own a gun. Protects both parties. Worth the $25.00 to me. But not many people do this. I am not going to sell a gun to some Joe Schmo without knowing if he is legal. Nor am I going to buy a gun unless I know it is not stolen. These things are in place for our protection and a "paper trail". However, they are not used by many people. The laws are there, just not used, not known and not enforced.
And transporting a gun in my, and several of my surrounding states, is only allowed if the gun is locked, in a case, in a separate part of the vehicle. "Out of arms reach". And the ammo needs to be locked in an opposite part of the vehicle from the gun. Do these laws get misused? Oh ya. Everyday.
I own, and use, a very large safe. All my guns and valuables are in there. They are not laying around on the kitchen table or something. Guns are actually supposed to be locked and out of the reach of minors in the home. You can get in some serious trouble, felony charges, if a minor gets a hold of your gun and commits a crime.
But are these laws and rules adhered too? No and it's an unfortunate reality.
My younger brother overdosed on his friends grandmothers pain pills. They were supposed to be locked up, but they found a way into the little safe to get them. Do I blame the pills? No. I blame the lack of education and common sense they had. I blame their indiscretion.
There is an old saying, "It takes a village to raise a child". My family educated me very well as I grew up. I learned a lot of things and did some stupid shit. Subjects like guns, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, driving, machinery, tools, and just how to live and being an adult are all learned traits. They are not instincts. I am glad I was told about what certain things could do. My parents held nothing back from me. They did not shield my eyes to the horrors and distresses of life. They would never tell me something was bad unless they actually knew either. That's just lying to your kids. If I would ask my father if I could go do something he wouldn't make up a lie. He would tell me like it was. "I don't trust you alone with....." whatever it was. I'm thankful he did that.
Education and knowledge are the only defense against fear.
As i have said before, i grew up in a gun culture environment, handled and killed for sport and food. I can to buy a gun tomorrow if i want and i don't belong or have to belong to a gun club.
Australians aren't denied the right to protect them selves, in fact i would say that no country in the world has a law that states that their citizens are not allowed to protect them selves
If you want to go out and kill 20 children in your country , that is up to you, do i worry...no.
Do i feel for those 20 children and question why a countries citizens perceive that restricting the amount of guns on the street is unconstitutional....then yes.
Australians aren't denied the right to protect them selves, in fact i would say that no country in the world has a law that states that their citizens are not allowed to protect them selves
If you want to go out and kill 20 children in your country , that is up to you, do i worry...no.
Do i feel for those 20 children and question why a countries citizens perceive that restricting the amount of guns on the street is unconstitutional....then yes.
