Bike not getting fire won't start....HELP!

[Sleezy650]

Ok so my bike has been down since Easter and its been a long road so far. If you've read my previous posts then you know my troubles so far but here it goes. Initially my bike broke down and seemed that there was a charging system issue I replaced the battery and found out the number 4 gear was worn slap out so I replaced it along with the clip and spring and it now turns over like a champ but won't start. I also had to replace the fuel line T connector and had both carbs rebuilt and tuned because when the fuel switch was on fuel would pour out thru one of the air filters. Anyways after all that the bike still won't start it sounds strong when turning it over but won't catch. Not sure if its electrical or some ignition component. (Replaced plugs as well) I'm getting to the point where I'm considering giving up on the bike all together, but I don't want to because I love my bike. Please help any insight is welcome.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Do you by any chance still have the old OEM ignition system? If you do, it gives a very weak spark. Buy a new ignition.............coils, spark plug leads. If you have points, its time to move on to a Pamco ignition.

 

[XSLeo]

Sleazy, I may have read your other threads or maybe not. One thing I can say is that if I did I don't remember them. It might be a good idea to put your bike info in your signature. year, model, any mods.
Now back to your question. If you have a points ignition, and had it apart. You may have it wired wrong. The upoper set of points hooks to the coil that runs the right side, the lower the left. If you plugged the wires together wrong you will have the ignition 180 out. To test is just unplug the left plug wire and plug it on the right plug, the same with the right wire to the left plug.
If it runs fix your wiring.
Leo

 

[Sleezy650]

Thanks for the insight guys I really appreciate it. You have to forgive me I'm new to motorcycles this is my second bike and my first project bike. It was built from tw ground up into a bobber and I didn't buy it from the guy that built it so I dd t get any info on the specifics of the bike. One thing I do know is the wiring on the bike looks like a nightmare, and I really would like to get the entire bike rewired. Since all the wiring on the bike looks rough it leads me to believe it could be a bad wire/connection, or it could be the ignition system. Which I would like to upgrade into a pamco system, but I don't have the funds to do that at the moment. Sorry for rambling I'm just at my whits end and there's so many things that could be the problem that I don't know where to start, wiring/spark plug wires/ignition coil/points/regulator rectifier/fuses or fuse panel. Anyways what would you guys start with I it was your bike?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Thanks for the insight guys I really appreciate it. You have to forgive me I'm new to motorcycles this is my second bike and my first project bike. It was built from tw ground up into a bobber and I didn't buy it from the guy that built it so I dd t get any info on the specifics of the bike. One thing I do know is the wiring on the bike looks like a nightmare, and I really would like to get the entire bike rewired. Since all the wiring on the bike looks rough it leads me to believe it could be a bad wire/connection, or it could be the ignition system. Which I would like to upgrade into a pamco system, but I don't have the funds to do that at the moment. Sorry for rambling I'm just at my whits end and there's so many things that could be the problem that I don't know where to start, wiring/spark plug wires/ignition coil/points/regulator rectifier/fuses or fuse panel. Anyways what would you guys start with I it was your bike?

If the wiring is in really bad condition, your best bet would be to buy a new replacement harness. The other option is to do the re-wiring yourself, if you feel you have the skill to do that.

You don't mention what year you have, but I'm guessing its a 78 or 79 Special. The old stock fuse panel is junk now, so it must be replaced with new automotive blade type fuse holders.

As I already said, the ignition coils, points, plug wires all need to be replaced.

While the rectifier and regulator may still be working, they are robbing you of voltage, and will not control voltage properly. Take a look at my signature for ideas for rectifier and regulator.

The electrical/ignition circuits on these bikes are somewhat complex, but they must be working 100%.

There's a fair amount of work and expense to bring these bikes back from years of neglect. If you prefer to ride more than do repairs, you may be better off buying a newer bike, say less than 10 years old.

 

[Sleezy650]

It's an 81 not sure if its a special or what bought it with a bill of sale no title

 

[XSLeo]

In my opinion no title = parts bike. I might see how hard it is to get titled in your state before proceeding. No sense in wasting money and time on a bike you can't ride legally.
But anyway being an 81 and if it still has the stock TCI then you need to check for voltage on the red/white wire at the TCI box and at the coil. Both need full battery voltage.
If no voltage you need to trace the red/white wires to find just where the power gets interrupted.
Leo

 

[Sleezy650]

You don't need a title in order to get the bike registered I already have a tag and insurance on it. In Georgia (and most states) all you need is a bill of sale if there's no title as long as the vehicle is over a certain age. I can't remember what year is the cut off its either 1995 or 1985-1990

 

[XSLeo]

I wouldn't say "most" states. Many won't register a bike with out a title no matter the age. Getting a title can cost hundreds of dollars.
Leo

 

[TurboPerfecto]

Hey gang, I'm a first time owner (and rider) as of a month ago. HAVING SO MUCH FUN!!! Thanks for this very helpful forum. I'm jumping in here with a question to help me get running and avoid the shop: Her name is "Irene" - 1982 xs650 Heritage Special with about 14k on her. No mods. Generally in great shape. Tuned up and oiled. Just bought her from a buddy who's had her running fine for a long while with no issues. Things were peachy until a few days ago - She was running fine one day and the next morning... now the starter just cranks and cranks but won't fire. Like, it feels like the fuel is just shut off. I read into stuff about the carbs and I'm not comfortable ripping her apart, and clearly I have no idea if it would be a carb issue (again, was running fine one day, not running the next) A couple notes:

- Two days before she stopped running: full tank of premium from Chevron just like normal.
- The day before she stopped running I did try to kick start her for about 45 minutes and she kind of did the same thing; she'd fire every few minutes just once. Eventually I jumped the battery and she fired right up and ran all day
- Battery needed charging every few days because it's been cold here. Previous owner recently replaced battery, coil, spark plugs. Basically, battery and starter seem strong.

Any suggestions or wisdom before I get a trailer and take her to the shop? I feel like it's something dumb / simple like - I need to jiggle a fuel hose or... something? Many thanks in advance. Cheers

 

[5twins]

First thing I'd do is check the fuses. If the bike is stock, the fuse box would be under the seat on top of the battery. There is a separate fuse for the ignition system. If it's blown, the bike would crank over but not start because you'd have no spark.

You say the battery keeps running down. You need a good, nearly full charged battery for these bikes to run. The ignition needs it to function. If the battery gets too low, the bike may still crank over but the starter will be using all the available power, and that will leave none to power the ignition. The battery could be getting low all the time for a couple of reasons. Either it's going bad or the bike has stopped charging. To check the charging output, you'll need to get the bike started again. Once running, test the voltage at the battery terminals at idle and revved up to around 3K. You should see 12 to 13 volts at idle, up around 14 volts when revved. If you get no change in voltage when revving the bike, you're not charging. If you do then the battery is probably just crapping out.

 

[TurboPerfecto]

First thing I'd do is check the fuses. If the bike is stock, the fuse box would be under the seat on top of the battery. There is a separate fuse for the ignition system. If it's blown, the bike would crank over but not start because you'd have no spark.

You say the battery keeps running down. You need a good, nearly full charged battery for these bikes to run. The ignition needs it to function. If the battery gets too low, the bike may still crank over but the starter will be using all the available power, and that will leave none to power the ignition. The battery could be getting low all the time for a couple of reasons. Either it's going bad or the bike has stopped charging. To check the charging output, you'll need to get the bike started again. Once running, test the voltage at the battery terminals at idle and revved up to around 3K. You should see 12 to 13 volts at idle, up around 14 volts when revved. If you get no change in voltage when revving the bike, you're not charging. If you do then the battery is probably just crapping out.

Thank you 5twins - It's super rainy here in Oregon today but as soon as it lets up I'll get out and check the fuses (and if I get it running - the voltage). Thanks for the detailed info.

 

[peanut]

welcome to the forum TP. i don't mean to be critical so please don't take this the wrong way. if you do not have the experience, tools and know-how to make a few basic checks before asking for help and advice it would be best if you do not try to do anything to the bike yourself. There is a very strong probability that you will cause more problems and make the situation far worse than it already is.

The first test that anyone should do faced with a non-starting bike is check to make sure that the kill switch has not inadvertently been left in the STOP position. Believe me its easily done.
Next check for a spark at the spark plugs . No spark ....no start ( see skulls long winded caution below ) also as 5Twins suggests ,check the main fuse.
Next check would be to make sure that you are getting fuel to the engine by checking your spark plugs after trying to start the bike . They should be wet with unburnt fuel. they may well need a good clean if they are sooted up from non starting and sitting idling for any time

If there is no fuel on the plugs try setting the petcocks to reserve . I'm not sure if your year model has vacuum petrol cocks if it does that could be an issue.

The easiest test you can apply to test whether or not you have a fuel supply issue is to squirt some 'EasyStart' into the carb inlets and try and start the engine . if the bike starts right up and idles for half a minute or so before cutting out then its likely to be a fuel delivery issue .

This type of 12v battery booster jump starter pack is invaluable and a great investment . I never leave home without mine which fits neatly under my seat . Don't be put off by its small size It is powerful enough to crank and start my 3 litre Porsche and 2.6 litre van with ease and it can be used to charge cellfones run laptops and has a built in light etc . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253550281717

 

[650Skull]

Welcome TurboPerfecto, i'll call you Turbo for short.

First off double check information given.....Do not Check for spark with your spark plugs removed if they are not earthed/ground You have Factory Electronic ignition, (TCI), and the plugs have to have an earth at all times with the key on and engine cranking. If you don't the TCI unit, (black box under the battery box), will burn out.............Here is a current thread where the op is trying to solve an electrical problem.... http://www.xs650.com/threads/no-spark.53476/
.NOTE; Post #1, the pic shows how he has earthed his plug while doing diagnostics......this is a Factory TCI ignition the same as yours.

If your battery is going flat then start there...........Sometimes electrical problems symptoms are carb related, and other times carb problem symptoms are electrical related......They can have similar symptoms so it is a mater of diagnostics.......... Battery going flat is a sign its electrical so start there as per 5 twins advice.

Get a manual......imperative if you want to work on your own bike..........I have posted a PDF file 82/83 Manual........It is easy to convert to JPEG but buying a clymer/Haynes or a factory manual makes it easy when working on the bike to have it right there with you.

 

[79josh81]

Sleezy, I don’t think it was said here and I don’t know if you mentioned it in an earlier post, but do you know if the bike even has spark at the plugs?

I would just check simple stuff first that might lead you in the right direction before you get into more complicated things that could be going on. Go from simple to complicated. That’s what’s worked for me anyways.

 

[peanut]

Sleazy, I don’t think it was said here and I don’t know if you mentioned it in an earlier post, but do you know if the bike even has spark at the plugs?

I would just check simple stuff first that might lead you in the right direction before you get into more complicated things that could be going on. Go from simple to complicated. That’s what’s worked for me anyways.

yes I agree........ simple basic checks first. .... Spark, Fuel and compression....Its completely pointless suggesting a complete novice start checking the complicated charging system first for a non-start issue.

TP filled the tank prior to non start issues and the problem could simply be rust from the tank has entered the fuel bowls and blocked the jets

 

[650Skull]

Sleezy, I don’t think it was said here and I don’t know if you mentioned it in an earlier post, but do you know if the bike even has spark at the plugs?

I would just check simple stuff first that might lead you in the right direction before you get into more complicated things that could be going on. Go from simple to complicated. That’s what’s worked for me anyways.

Check the Dates.......Sleezy posted about his problems in 2013..........turbo has resurrected the thread and posted his problems on Tuesday.

I disagree that the charging system is hard to diagnose.........With a good volt meter and with the help of the members here it is easy to learn to do simple charging diagnostics..........All it takes is to set the volt meter to the correct setting and measure across 2 wires.......By posting questions and asking how to........and then doing and posting the results all will be revealed.....Use any information in conjunction with reading the manual

 

[79josh81]

Ah well then....I guess then Turbo should see if he’s getting good spark and go from simple to complicated. Lol my bad not seeing the dates. But for future reference Turbo, your best bet is just creating a new thread outlining your problem so guys like me lacking an attention to detail don’t get confused.

And Sleezy, if you’re still out there in cyber world struggling with your issue for the past 5 years...start simple. Lol

 

[peanut]

79josh81 sorry I did realise that you had put the wrong name in your post but forgot to tell you.
However your advice is just as pertinant to Turbo as it is to Sleazy's issues so its still useful to anyone arriving at this old thread from a search.

And as for guys lacking attention ......well .....I made a cup of tea this morning and then promptly poured it down the sink ?!
i'm running out of excuses lol

 

[79josh81]

And as for guys lacking attention ......well .....I made a cup of tea this morning and then promptly poured it down the sink ?!
i'm running out of excuses lol

That’s awesome. Lol