Boyer and Pamco Ignition

For the record a complete TCI Ignition system can be found at SportDevices.com:
https://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm

The following is cut from the above link to give a taster of what others have been doing. The ASM code file for the PIC can be downloaded from the above link:

Programmable TCI Ignition (Transistorised Coil Ignition)
Dwell time
Dwell time is the time that the coil needs to be charged BEFORE it can produce a spark. It is constant for each coil, typical values go from 0.5ms (low impedance coils) to 5ms.
Since dwell time is a constant in miliseconds, the number of degrees needed for dwell time varies for the different rpm values of engine (see graph). This make things a bit more complex than on CDI ignition, because the program needs to calculate where to start coil's charge (before than on CDI) to ensure the right dwell time even at high rpm.
dwell_time vs deg.gif

Dwell time in degrees (dwell time=1ms)


How to calculate where should start the coil's charge:

  • at low rpm Tc will be after the ref. pulse: Tcl = dwell time - delay (table) (Tcl is negative at high rpm)
  • at high rpm Tc will be before the ref. pulse: Tch = period - dwell time + delay (table) (Tch = Tcl + period)

dwell_time.gif





TCI Schematic (PIC12F675)
ignition_TCI_PIC12F675.gif


PIC program
  • This release of the program is a simplification of TCI, but it works fine with high impedance coils (about 5 ohm).
  • TCI could be more complex for high speed coils: it would need to start the coil's charge after the reference pulse when engine is running at low rpm, and before the reference pulse when engine is running at high rpm. Current version only does the high rpm part.
  • This version always calculates the dwell time before the ref. pulse, but for low rpm dwell time will be longer than needed. This spents some extra current on the coil at low rpm. But if coils with certain resistance (3 ohm or higher) it won't be an issue, these coils accept wide dwell time range. Please don't test it on CDI coils or on-spark coils because its lower impedance.
  • For example: with a dwell time of 1ms, and a spark advance of 30º, dwell time will start before the ref. pulse when higher than 5000 rpm, and after the pulse when lower than 5000 rpm.
  • For low ohm coils, dwell time should be calculated with the highest accuracy possible (in future version) because we are using a schematic based on a IGBT and this device doesn't limit the coil's current (as on old transistor based circuits), and this may be dangerous for a low ohm coil.
 
1981 XS650 SH - Pamco ignition with Eadvance. I believe it is a genuine Pamco but not %100. It is the simplified detector unit. (looks to just be a MOSFET and a capacitor)

I'm trying to diagnose a no spark situation i got myself into. I was troubleshooting a charging system issue, jumped the Reg/Rec, and let it run a few seconds too long. I saw ~16.5V across the battery then the bike quit. It blew the Head Light fuse, and when I replaced the fuse the Reserve Light Box smoked to death. Cut out the box and jumped (Blue/Black - Blue/Yellow) as recommended by a few other posts. it should be noted here that I have also removed the safety relay as it died a while back but was running fine until this incident.

I now have no spark and haven't fixed my charging system...

^What he means is if you have 12V on the red, that should go through the coil and appear on the green at all times except when the ignition is trying to fire the coil.

At the coil --
check for 12V from the red to ground.
If good, check for 12V from green to ground.
If 12V not on the green, remove green connector at coil and check coil there again.
If still not 12V there then bad coil
If you did get 12V on the green terminal only with the green wire removed from it, it means bad ignition or bad installation.
-- check ohms from red to where green was connected to confirm.

I tested the coil and it tested good across the primary and secondary. 30 Ohms from cap to cap which seems a little on the high side but I think it is acceptable...?

10.9V on the red at the coil
10.9V on the green at the coil
Constant 3v on the green on the cam sensor. Pulled the plugs and grounded them with wire so i could slowly turn over the engine to check. doesn't seem like the plate on the cam is sending a fire signal.
Note: with a battery voltage of 12.2V ignition off, 12.0V ignition on, 10.9V at the Pamco, and up to the coil.


The green wire on the sensor plate is connected to the MCU input port which has an internal pull up resistor to 3 Volts. You cannot reliably see this with some meters. You have to use an oscilloscope with a very high input impedance.If you were getting a reading between near zero and near battery Voltage on the green wire to the coil when rotating the rotor, then the system is working properly.

I'm reading constant 3V but with a cheap DMM so not entirely confident that I'm not missing the fire signal.


Im looking for a second opinion. it seems to me that the detector is dead and that i might be able to just replace the MOSFET and capacitor with equivalent components off the shelf. please let me know if there are any other readings that might be helpful for diagnosing this.
 
Be prepared for longer riding seasons.............you won't have to visit Aus to experience our weather.:laugh2:
https://www.sciencealert.com/last-8...as-climate-breakdown-dramatically-accelerates
G'day. I've been reading your earlier posts regarding Pamco electronic ignition. Great info. Many thanks.

My bike is a stock standard 1976 XS650-C (US version) with points, 2 coils and 1 condenser. Recently, I bought on e-bay a box of bike bits which included what I have now discovered to be a Pamco electronic ignition unit. Hopefully all present. Three items, consisting of the base plate with circuit board and three wires; a 4 pole (?) magnet; and a large flat washer. All new, never used. Nothing else.

Question. Is this sufficient kit for me to replace the points with? Or do I need more stuff? And if sufficient, does it matter which wire I connect to the Left/Right coil? (red or green...black presumably earth)

Apologies for contacting you through this forum. Tried to DM you, but failed miserably :p Steve
 
Pamco will use one dual tower coil.
1668025168266.png Thanks gggGary. Single coil, dual output required, huh? Can't use the 2 existing standard coils :-( So I need to purchase something like this, I guess? Coil - Ignition - 3.3 Ohm - Dual Output - XS Performance? Is that correct?
 
View attachment 229421 Thanks gggGary. Single coil, dual output required, huh? Can't use the 2 existing standard coils :-( So I need to purchase something like this, I guess? Coil - Ignition - 3.3 Ohm - Dual Output - XS Performance? Is that correct?
looks OK didn't have any luck finding a Pamco installation manual, but 3.3 ohm seems safe enough.
Don't have any experience with that particular coil but have lots of miles on a pamco with an Accel #140403 coil.
There's a bit of history having to do with original Pamco and MikesXS "Pamco branded" ignitions.
@650Skull has a Pamco thread round here somewhere.
 
Last edited:
looks OK didn't have any luck finding a Pamco installation manual, but 3.3 ohm seems safe enough.
Don't have any experience with that particular coil but have lots of miles on a pamco with an Accel #140403 coil.
There's a bit of history having to do with original Pamco and MikesXS "Pamco branded" ignitions.
@650Skull has a Pamco thread round here somewhere.
Thanks mate. Your valuable assistance much appreciated. 👍🏻
 
Pamcopete stopped using those green coils. Pot pic of the unit and all the components you have with it. There were a couple of modifications done over time to correct a couple of weaknesses

I put all the pamco information into one thread.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-and-pamco-ignition.46859/
Thanks mate. This is what came in the box. Need to know if it's all there, and if not, what else is required. Looking to fit it onto on my bog standard '76-c with points and 2 original coils.
 

Attachments

  • 16680778486006187366221018590365.jpg
    16680778486006187366221018590365.jpg
    289.9 KB · Views: 71
Thanks mate. This is what came in the box. Need to know if it's all there, and if not, what else is required. Looking to fit it onto on my bog standard '76-c with points and 2 original coils.
That kinda looks like a late production genuine Pamco mebby pics somewhere up in this thread will help tell it from a later MikesXS "Pamco"
All pamcos were simple low cost electronic iggies. Generally reliable but they did not like no battery, Capacitor equipped bikes.
The mikes units were notoriously unreliable, often letting out the smoke in short order.
 
I don't post in this thread anymore. ...........drag peanut out of retirement...............................Geez i made a lire out of myself....................last one honest
 
Many of us use a Honda MP08 coil, cheap and reliable. Honda used it for many years on many of their bikes so nice used ones are readily available on eBay .

Compared.jpg
 
Many of us use a Honda MP08 coil, cheap and reliable. Honda used it for many years on many of their bikes so nice used ones are readily available on eBay .

View attachment 229535
Thanks chaps. All good useful info. Once I get the bike up and running with standard points system, I'll review the need and desire to go down the electronic ignition route. Appreciate all your help so far.
 
Back
Top