charging problems ha ya i know another one

[Downer]

hey guys my bike was charging about a week ago and now its not ive read curlys guide and gggarys expanded charging guide on the first test with a wrench or feeler guage its a no go no magnitisim at all on the second test im not really sure how to do that one i dont want to fry anything so some help on that one would be great. now on the third test testing the positive brush all im getting is a .2 drop from battery voltage .on the fourth test from slip ring to slip ring im getting 5.5 ohm and from slip ring to the engine im getting infinity. now on the fifth and sixth test im not really sure on doing these tests also. got less than a month to get this bike charging again for bornfree so any help would be great. thanx in advance

 

[Downer]

Bump to the top! Ggggary I need ya

 

[Downer]

ok guys gonna tell you my update

test number one. charged battery to 12.9

test number two. i tried with a wrench and a feeler guage and it was a no go. no magnitisim.

test number three. i jumped the green wire from solid state reg/rec and nothing happened no change in voltage.

test number four. i checked the voltage at the positive brush and it only dropped .2

test number five. i checked between the slip rings and i got a reading of 5.5 ohm then i cheched between slip rings and engine and got infinity.

test number six. i did not check this cause im not really sure on how to do it.

test number seven. checked resestance between all three white wires from stator and got 0.5 ohms on all.

also should i show some kind of ohms between the postive and negative brushes cause i read in another post that i should. but not showing any ohms just infinaty.

ok thanx again guys please help out if you can thanx in advance

 

[Dennis]

I think your readings are in the right areas
I do think useing the green wire you should get full voltage ( step 3 ) so I would start there

 

[Downer]

I've checked it all but not sure how to determine what part I need to replace seems to me my rotor stator and reg/rec are all in spec if I could afford it now I throw all that stuff in the trash and buy a pma but can't at this time

 

[kenintn]

rotor resistance seems OK

Measure voltage from the Brown Brush wire to frame with the key on. You should see 12+ volts
If not backtrack your wiring on the brown wire to the harness plugs and check them for volts on the brown wire until you locate 12 volts. Problem will be there.
If so, if you have one make a test light out of a tail/T-signal light bulb and connect one lead to battery + and one to the green brush wire. The light should come on bright. The goal here is to make sure the SVR will provide a proper ground circuit for the rotors current. A signal/tail light bulb (car or cycle) should do this.

If the bulb will not come on chances are the SVR is bad but I'd then check plug connections at the SVR.

Let us know what you find.

 

[gggGary]

kenintn gives good advice weedhopper. Like he says make sure you have +12 at the top brush. The light tests are good too.

Sorry for the delay, full day O work and just got done putting up hay tonight.
Have you checked your fuse box, fuse holders, ground wire, how are the brushes? No reason you can't jumper 12 volts to the top brush and retry the magnetic test.

 

[kenintn]

if I could afford it now I throw all that stuff in the trash and buy a pma but can't at this time

No offense but aside from the stock rotors failing the 650's charging system is pretty reliable. But like any machine it requires PM. There are a few PM procedures and a rotor V/A test I perform annually on my XS650B and it has racked up over 16,000 miles without a single charging issue. Prior to this the rotor shorted out at around 6000 miles.

The biggest issue facing most 650 owners is they haven't dealt with electrical circuits much (if at all) and more so aren't familiar with the 650's electrical wiring circuits. It looks like a pile of spaghetti at times.
This coupled with service manuals that are FULL of incorrect diagrams and testing information result in hours of head scratching and hunting for the problem which frustrates a lot of owners.

But there is animated software available that will walk you through each circuit and teach you how it works as well as knowledgeable people available that can assist you in finding problems and understanding the 650's electrical system.
This forum is just one of several sources of information on the Yamaha 650. (And a very good one I might add!)

The main thing is not to let the problem get the best of you.

Just keep in mind what I wrote below.

 

[Downer]

Ok I got zero voltage to the top brush but 12 to the bottom top brush is black bottom is green

 

[gggGary]

What year is the engine or a picture of the alternator?

 

[Downer]

its a 77 with a no pic as of right now

 

[gggGary]

OK we didn't ask that first. The ground the green doesn't work on a 77. On the 79 and earlier the voltage regulator is an old timey thing with points. it turns the 12 volts to the the hot brush on and off. So like ken in ten sez try a light bulb test and see if the 12 volts is a good strong 12 volts that has some amperage available. How are those brushes? Since you have measured from ring to ring, have you had the stator off? Try a jumper from the battery to hot brush see if that gets the magnetic field going.

 

[Downer]

so should the hot brush be the top or bottom brush? what do you mean by the green ground not working on a 77? i did have the stator off to inspect it the brushes are in good shape by the looks of things over 7mm. now i should try a jumper from postive to the hot brush but witch is the hot brush the top or bottom? and while bike is running correct? ill try the bulb trick also. also is it correct that im showing voltage on the bottom brush the green one?

 

[gggGary]

IF the 77 still has all the stock charging system parts but that is a BIG if that's why iwant to see a pic off the brush area and the voltage regulator. Short version is we can't tell what's going on till we know what all you have in YOUR charging system.

 

[Downer]

Pretty sure it's a 77 stator I'll get a pic for you but I have a reg/ rec combo an early one from mikes

 

[kenintn]

test number three. i jumped the green wire from solid state reg/rec and nothing happened no change in voltage.

ok thanx again guys please help out if you can thanx in advance

Uhhhhh.... your above post indicated you had a solid state reg/rec ????
Thus the checks I posted were based around that.
I saw the 77d at the bottom but thought you had more than one bike.

With that said the following should point you to the problem....

Take the green wire (you said you have 12 volts on it) off the brush (re-tighten screw)Set your meter up to read 10 amps.
Connect the meter leads , one to the green wire, one to the brush.
Turn on the key and see if you show any current.
Should see 2 amps or so.

If not, reconfirm you have 12 volts on the green wire with the key on.
If so, connect the volt meter lead to the battery HOT post and the other to the BLACK brush wire. If you see 12 volts agan the problem is with the brushes or rotor.

Measure the rotor brushes' resistance with the key off.
Set meter to its lowest R scale and connect leads across brushes. Should see at least 5 ohms. Real high ohms = poor connection or open rotor winding.

IF you see 2 amps or so rotor current then the problem might be with the rectifier circuitry.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there.

 

[kenintn]

Ooops,... NOW I see your post on the dreaded Mikes XS SVR.
No problemo...

You said you read 12 volts on the green wire (output from the SVR) so run the tests
and let's see if you get rotor current or not.

 

[weekendrider]

But there is animated software available that will walk you through each circuit and teach you how it works

Ooh SNAP.
Welcome to the site Uncle Ken
Last time(2-3 yrs ago) I looked your site was down?
Found you now and you have mail.

Since he didn't post it(or is it in the shop section?)
here is the "650 wiring explained" page at Kens site
http://www.mikesxs.net/ken_maxwell/WiringExplained.html

 

[Downer]

ok guys back with another update

test#1 taking the positive screw off and checking amperage between green wire and holding screw.

answer 0 amps

test #2 measure from battery negative to loose unscrewed postive brush

answer dropped 2 volts from battery volts

test#3 connected from postive battery to black wire on brush

answer 0 volts

test #4 connect leads across brushes

answer i got .3 ohms

test #5 connecting a tail light from postive battery to green brush

answer im getting a very dim bulb

 

[kenintn]

ok guys back with another update

test#1 taking the positive screw off and checking amperage between green wire and holding screw.

Answer 0 amps

test #2 measure from battery negative to loose unscrewed positive brush

Answer dropped 2 volts from battery volts

test#3 connected from positive battery to black wire on brush

Answer 0 volts

Test #4 connect leads across brushes

answer i got .3 ohms

test #5 connecting a tail light from positive battery to green brush

answer im getting a very dim bulb

OK,..
Here is what I'm seeing. (Others feel free to chime in case I'm missing something.
#1 By putting the amp meter in series you should have seen current (with the switch on) You note no amps. Means an open circuit somewhere.

#2 you note "dropped 2 volts." Are you saying the green wire only had around 10 volts on it or 2 volts? Bottom line... with the green wire disconnected you should have right at the battery's voltage between it and the battery negative. Need to take a close look at the voltage regulator plug for corrosion, bad connection.

#3 Something here is definitely wrong. The black wire should be at frame ground (unless the regulator is unplugged or not grounded therefore you should have read exactly the batteries voltage. PLUS the black brush holder is supposed to have a ground strap that screws to the stator so it STILL should be grounded. This doesn't make sense. DO THIS: Measure voltage from the battery hot post to the engine. It should be the same as fron the hot to neg. post. If not check your battery's ground cable connection.
Aside from this if you measure resistance on low ohms from the brush with the black wire to frame you should see right at zero ohms, NOT infinity.

#4 The .3 ohms is not good, indicates a shorted rotor. However when you read the resistance make sure your meter is set to its lowest ohm scale setting. (If you know this OK, some folks don't know to do this. Just making sure.)

#5 This test only applies to the stock solid state SVRs. Was from my first post before I found out you have the Mikes XS SVR

Recapping:
If you put your meter across the rotor's brushes with the green wire disconnected and still get < 4 ohm the rotor's got issues or something in the brush assembly is not right.

From your post it seems there is a wiring problem possibly with the voltage regulator.

Check these and the others noted above and let us know.

Ken