could it be the boyer ??? please help

hooktool--
Im not sure what you mean by going through the ignition but it was set up by a profesional bike builder ( not that im saying he know all ) but i know it was running fine for a while,,
it cant be a carb thing however i went through that and thought that it was so i jeted and tweeked every different way i could with the carbs and still no change,, thats when i got upset and put the stock carbs back on the bike ,, when i did that i had the same problem,, what are the chances that it would be two sets of carbs when i kind of have an idea of what to do with the carbs (not saying i know all ) but petty sure its not a carb thing,,

puplezinger--
i like the sound of stone axe reliability,, im just a real idiot when it comes to this cause i have no idea what im doing with points or wiring it,,did you say that i do have to use the stock tci???? and if so can you show me a diagram that has this set up??? i can get all those parts that you said no problem ,, i just need to know how to wire it,, and i guess that means i have to re-wire my whole bike????

also one more thing ,, there is a wiring diagram thats used for the 81 xs 650,,, on that diagram whats is the pick-up coil and the ignitor coil??? is that the tci and the points,, if so i think i can handle wiring it
 
Let me clarify it a bit more. TCI systems have the following components: a pickup coil (located on the alternator), a ignition coil (this is a single coil that fires both plugs at the same time, located under the fuel tank) and a TCI control box (black plastic, usually located under the battery box).
Points systems have the following components: A points plate and points cam (located inside the left side cam end cover). a mechanical advance and associated parts (located under the right side cam end cover. These two items are connected by a advance rod that passes through the camshaft. A set of 2 condensers located under the fuel tank and 2 ignition coils (one for each spark plug) also located under the fuel tank.
TCI systems do not have points etc. Points systems do not have pickups.
TCI is a acronym for Transistor Controlled Ignition. TCI is NOT a CDI system. CDI is a different animal entirely.
Points systems are Stone Axe reliable BUT they are not maintenance free. Points gaps have to be periodically checked and set. Ignition timing also has to be checked and maintained.

You do not have to completely rewire the bike to install a points system. But you do need to be comfortable making wiring changes. You should be familiar with electrical principals and I would suggest go to your library and study up on the basic principals of automotive ignitions.
 
ok wow thanks for all of that info,,, so then i dont need a tci box if im going with the point i just need the point the two coils the condensors all hooked up???
well something like that ?? :confused: right ?? and thanks so much for this help by the way
 
If your talking about checking the system to see if its putting out power......I have done this before by putting a voltage meter on the battery, when I rev the bike up the voltage goes up to 14.2 and then itwill go down as I letgo of throttle .....im pretty sure of having a good source of power however I will do it again just to make sure...... im going to take the coil to a shop to see if they can test it for me.....a friend of mine saysthat he has another coil to use but can I mix and match coils out with the. Boyer
 
The primary resistance of the ignition coils used in electronic systems is somewhat critical. I have no experience with the Boyer but I would say do not try any coil unless it has similar primary resistance.
 
Ok so I spoke to the guy that I bought it from (650 central) and he says I need to take the coil somewhere and get it tested.... would you believe me when I tell I asked two motorcycle shops if they could test it and they looked at me like I had two heads. Lol. Maybe ill just spend 100 dollars and just get a new coil just to rule it out. I don't care about the money anymore and I really want to ride guys. My only concern is if it happened once, who's to say its not going to happen again... or did I just get a bad coil?
 
Again, I'm not at all familiar with the Boyer unit. But coils do go bad. In fact the Heritage that I have now had a bad coil when I got it. The primary resistance was correct but the secondary was open. I went to a motorcycle junkyard with my Multimeter and went through a pile of coils until I found one that had the same primary resistance. The coil I ended up with came from a Honda CBR600. It works just fine with my factory TCI. Not having any experience with a Boyer I can't make any suggestions. I suggest you reach out to someone on this board that does. They may be able to help you further.
 
Purplezinger said:
Again, I'm not at all familiar with the Boyer unit. But coils do go bad. In fact the Heritage that I have now had a bad coil when I got it. The primary resistance was correct but the secondary was open. I went to a motorcycle junkyard with my Multimeter and went through a pile of coils until I found one that had the same primary resistance. The coil I ended up with came from a Honda CBR600. It works just fine with my factory TCI. Not having any experience with a Boyer I can't make any suggestions. I suggest you reach out to someone on this board that does. They may be able to help you further.
Click to expand...

can you explain to me in full detail how to test the primary resistance and the secodary
that would be great!!!!
Is this done with a electrical tester and is like testing continuity???
 
Ive been chasing the same demons for two months. I have your exact set up, Boyer etc. Bike showed all of the same signs your does. Turned out to be a slowly dying battery and a bad coil. Bike runs perfect now. I thought I was going crazy changing carbs, cleaning carbs, rejetting, checking connections...

Posted via Mobile
 
First, you need to have or have access to a good Volt-Ohm meter. I'm a retired Industrial Technician and have a Simpson 260 for my analog meter. For digital meters I prefer Fluke and have a couple different models. I have heard the meter sold by Harbor Freight is good, I have no personal experience with it. Some digital meters are auto-ranging. One of mine is, I feel auto-ranging would be confusing to a novice.
The more knowledge you have of basic electricity and principals, the better.

To do a basic check of the coil you want to measure it's primary resistance and it's secondary resistance. The coil can be described as a transformer. It consists of 2 lengths of wire wrapped around a iron core. One length is shorter and has fewer turns (wraps) around the core. (this is the primary winding). The second length of wire is many times longer, usually smaller in diameter and has a far greater number of turns wrapped around the core. This is the secondary winding. The primary winding will have a low resistance. Depending on the system it could be anywhere from 4 ohms to 20 ohms maybe more. Set your meter on Rx1 to make this check
The secondary resistance could be 2000 (2K) ohms to 30,000 (30K) ohms. Set your meter on Rx2K or Rx10K to make this check.
The system voltage on all motor vehicles is DC. Continuous DC cannot be transformed. So it works like this: 12 volt DC is applied to the primary winding for a short time and then removed. (The voltage is turned on, then off) as the voltage is turned on a electro/magnetic field is built around the iron core. When the voltage is turned off this field collapses. As it collapses it induces a high voltage spike in the secondary winding. This spike is strong enough to bridge the spark plug gap creating the ignition spark.There are many other factors involved, saturation speed, saturation time (dwell), heating, insulation, etc. These are far to complex to get into here. Hopefully this will give you a start.
 
Bigzakdaddy said:
Ive been chasing the same demons for two months. I have your exact set up, Boyer etc. Bike showed all of the same signs your does. Turned out to be a slowly dying battery and a bad coil. Bike runs perfect now. I thought I was going crazy changing carbs, cleaning carbs, rejetting, checking connections...

Posted via Mobile
Click to expand...

was your battery old or not taking a full charge maybe? just want to know!
but one question,, doesnt the bike get its power through the alternator after the bike is started??? would a weak battery mess up a new coil??? would a weak alternator do the same thing??? ok i guess that was more than one question :laugh:
 
Purplezinger said:
First, you need to have or have access to a good Volt-Ohm meter. I'm a retired Industrial Technician and have a Simpson 260 for my analog meter. For digital meters I prefer Fluke and have a couple different models. I have heard the meter sold by Harbor Freight is good, I have no personal experience with it. Some digital meters are auto-ranging. One of mine is, I feel auto-ranging would be confusing to a novice.
The more knowledge you have of basic electricity and principals, the better.

To do a basic check of the coil you want to measure it's primary resistance and it's secondary resistance. The coil can be described as a transformer. It consists of 2 lengths of wire wrapped around a iron core. One length is shorter and has fewer turns (wraps) around the core. (this is the primary winding). The second length of wire is many times longer, usually smaller in diameter and has a far greater number of turns wrapped around the core. This is the secondary winding. The primary winding will have a low resistance. Depending on the system it could be anywhere from 4 ohms to 20 ohms maybe more. Set your meter on Rx1 to make this check
The secondary resistance could be 2000 (2K) ohms to 30,000 (30K) ohms. Set your meter on Rx2K or Rx10K to make this check.
The system voltage on all motor vehicles is DC. Continuous DC cannot be transformed. So it works like this: 12 volt DC is applied to the primary winding for a short time and then removed. (The voltage is turned on, then off) as the voltage is turned on a electro/magnetic field is built around the iron core. When the voltage is turned off this field collapses. As it collapses it induces a high voltage spike in the secondary winding. This spike is strong enough to bridge the spark plug gap creating the ignition spark.There are many other factors involved, saturation speed, saturation time (dwell), heating, insulation, etc. These are far to complex to get into here. Hopefully this will give you a start.
Click to expand...

this is very interesting stuff man:thumbsup: sounds like you know your sh-t,,
i understand what your telling me so far and im loving it....however the thing im confused about is where to put the probes... i know what im looking for now... but i just need to know hot to look for it ... wich side of the coil is the primary and wich side is the secondary??? sorry bro i feel like an idiot :shrug:
 
The primary terminals are the low voltage ones. Set your meter on Rx1 place a meter lead on each of the primary terminals and read the resistance. The secondary terminals are the high voltage ones, I.E. the spark plug wires. If the Boyer system has a single coil, both spark plug wires will be attached to that coil. To measure the secondary resistance of this style coil, place your probes inside the spark plug boots, (one on each terminal) and measure the resistance.
 
Purplezinger said:
The primary terminals are the low voltage ones. Set your meter on Rx1 place a meter lead on each of the primary terminals and read the resistance. The secondary terminals are the high voltage ones, I.E. the spark plug wires. If the Boyer system has a single coil, both spark plug wires will be attached to that coil. To measure the secondary resistance of this style coil, place your probes inside the spark plug boots, (one on each terminal) and measure the resistance.
Click to expand...

the primary and the secondary are both read from the same place with the probes only that i have to switch my multimeter from rx1 to rx10 right?
 
measure the primary terminals with the meter set to Rx1. Move the meter leads to the spark plug terminals set the meter to Rx10 or higher and measure the secondary,
 

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