Does the battery charge while idling?

[drake900]

I have a 76 with stock ignition and charging system...

I'm just wondering if the battery is supposed to charge while the bike idles or only while riding?

 

[jayel]

stock system, no .... would need to be above 2500 rpm and probably closer to 3000

 

[ReycleBill]

While you might get some charging at idea it's not enough.

 

[GreasyC]

I don't even think it breaks even. Current is probably flowing out of the battery at idle, not in.

 

[bluebikerblan]

I'd like to know for sure but; with the headlight on (as most were OEM wired to be) and from what I can crudely measure I usually don't see much charging going on below 3,500 rpm and that is way above a comfortable idle. Frankly, that's one of the reasons I set XS 650's up to be headlight on/off via handle bar switches only. Blue

 

[drake900]

ya thats a good idea...I guess this is why so many people swap to a PMA. Tempted to spend the cash!

 

[5twins]

I have no problem with the stock charging system. I adjusted my voltage regulator and now it charges as it should. I also "fixed" my headlight on/off switch so it works all the time.

 

[drake900]

I have done the solid state regulator/radio shack swap...

I went for a ride today with a fully charged battery and about 15 mins into the ride the bike died and the battery was completely dead...not even enough to turn on the headlight! This has happened four times now...

I've got some reading ahead of me to find out how to fix the charging issue without buying a PMA swap

How do you adjust the voltage regulator...?

 

[5twins]

You can't adjust your new fangled solid state regulator, only the original mechanical one. But, in order for the regulator to regulate, it has to have something to work with. Obviously, you have charging issues. You're not producing a charge voltage. Since you already upgraded the regulator and rectifier, that only leaves the rotor or maybe the brushes. The brushes are considered a wear item on these bikes. Check them to see if they're worn too short. Once they do, charging stops.

 

[retiredgentleman]

ya thats a good idea...I guess this is why so many people swap to a PMA. Tempted to spend the cash!

There is no need to spend money on a PMA. The stock alternator works just fine on my bike. A solid state regulator (such as the VR-115) and a modern rectifier make the charging system work real nice. Even the OEM regulator will get the job done if its adjusted correctly.The brushes must be long enough (3/8") to keep tension on the slip rings. Keep the slip rings clean as well. Replacing the #1157 bulb (70 to 79) or replacing the two #1157 bulbs (80 to 83) with an LED tailight, decreases the alternator load enough that it makes the charging system work much better.


At 1200 rpm the alternator is not charging. Current flow is out of the battery to the ignition and other loads. As you increase rpm, even at 1500 rpm the alternator starts to send current into the battery. Driving on the highway at 3000 to 4000 rpm the battery is being fully charged.

I let the OEM Safety Relay automatically turn on my headlight after the engine starts, and its works perfectly. I use a 40 watt low beam headlight rather that the 55 watt type. The 40 watt halogen gives good lighting and also reduces the alternator load.

 

[drake900]

Ive been reading the Guide to the Charging system and and doing the tests.

I did the slap test and did not get any magnetic field...Problem Number 1....

I'm stuck at step number 4 which reads :
"4. If nothing changes then it's time to check the voltage on the brown wire (It may be black on your bike) at the positive brush with the key on. It should be very close to battery voltage. The brown wire that feeds the brush gets its power from the brown wire at the keyswitch. Check the voltage at the three wire keyswitch connector while it's plugged in by probing from the backside of the connector with the key on. Again you should see the same voltage as the battery. If you do get full battery voltage there then repair the brown wire circuit between the switch and the positive brush. If not then the switch is either bad or the red wire from the battery is not passing the full current like it should. If that's the case then keep going back along the red wire, through the main fuse until you find the source of the voltage drop. No more than 0.3 VDC drop is acceptable."


I am stuck here because I have done the solid state regulator mod which requires the black brush wires to be ungrounded.

Should I just skip this step and go onto checking the brushes? or is there a different way to read the voltage that I should be checking...

 

[drake900]

I checked the brushes and one is 10.28 mm, the other is 12 mm.

I checked the rotor and am not getting any reading between the slip rings.

I also checked the white wires from the stator and am also not getting any reading.

I am wondering if i'm using the voltmeter wrong possibly...

Which setting should I have it on for checking the charging system parts...

 

[scabber]

The parts are cheap lots have changed out good ones just for more power.

 

[nj1639]

I checked the brushes and one is 10.28 mm, the other is 12 mm.

I checked the rotor and am not getting any reading between the slip rings.

I also checked the white wires from the stator and am also not getting any reading.

I am wondering if i'm using the voltmeter wrong possibly...

Which setting should I have it on for checking the charging system parts...

Take both brushes out and then test across the rings. I have a digital Volt/Ohm meter with only one setting for ohms. If I touch the two leads together it tones with a steady beep.

 

[trance]

I don't know exactly what the xs650 system does. My Honda CB (which has a very similar charging system) will start charging at 2500 rpm but only if you are at 2500 for 30 seconds or more. Otherwise, you have to get above 3500 to see charge (IE: 13.8 volts or more). I will get full charging at 2500-3000 (in my case 14.7 volts) but you have to understand that my Honda's charging sytem is extremely good - most people don't get charge until 3500-4500. With these old bikes, you either need to take long rides w/o slowing down for lights, or you should put it on the charger overnight as often as possible. Since I ride in town mostly, my bikes are often on the chargers.

 

[650Skull]

I don't know exactly what the xs650 system does. My Honda CB (which has a very similar charging system) will start charging at 2500 rpm but only if you are at 2500 for 30 seconds or more. Otherwise, you have to get above 3500 to see charge (IE: 13.8 volts or more). I will get full charging at 2500-3000 (in my case 14.7 volts) but you have to understand that my Honda's charging sytem is extremely good - most people don't get charge until 3500-4500. With these old bikes, you either need to take long rides w/o slowing down for lights, or you should put it on the charger overnight as often as possible. Since I ride in town mostly, my bikes are often on the chargers.

This is wrong. if all the connections are good and clean and the rotor and stator are working properly the XS650 will do a lot of short runs. Letting the bike sit for periods of time and short runs are not good. The tail light does draw a lot of power and when sitting at the lights does overload the system somewhat. An led light solves this problem.

 

[drake900]

SUMMARY
*********

I'm lost here....can someone please refer back to the post with the voltmeter photo...

I'm having a hard to believing that both the rotor and the stator are bad, but as of now I'm getting no reading at all on the rotor and the white wires of the stator plug...

1) slap test did not work
2) regulator test proved in working order
3) I set the volt meter to Ohms 2 and did not get any reading on the rotor rings with or without the stator on.
4) I set the volt meter to Ohms 2 and did not get any reading on the white wires from the stator.
5) I am running a Shorai battery


Are they both bad or am I measuring things wrong?

 

[650Skull]

drake900, Check out this thread, Expanded charging system guide (In progress) gggary has done a comprehensive write up with pics.

This thread should be a sticky, this question seems to come up regular

 

[drake900]

Thanks for the link...that's the guide that I have been following, but nothing seems to be working as planned...

 

[drake900]

any further help or information?