Electric starter.

lovebill1951

lovebill1951

XS650 Enthusiast
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
West Point / Clearfield, Utah
I'm in my putting it back together phase. The engine is sitting in the frame with the carbs off, spark plugs out, and exhaust pipes off.
I applied my battery charger to the electric starter and the starter spun freely but didn't seem to engage and turn the engine over. The starter just spins. Or so it sounds like that what it's doing.
My plan is / was to use the electric starter to turn the engine for a compression check.
Shouldn't this work?:wtf:
 
If you have the left side round cover off the engine you would be able to see if the engine is turning over. Put a finger over the spark plug hole and see if you feel anything. In the tech section there is an excellent post by inxs about the electric starting system. Currently I have my right side engine cover off doing the clutch and starter gears. You may have to pull it off to see if you have issues under there. Let us know what you find so we may learn from your experiences. :thumbsup:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=948

Remember, if you pull the starter you have to drain the oil and getting those starter bolts out are a bitch without an offset wrench.
 
Pumps, both side covers are off. The starter is just free spinning and not engageing the gears to turn the engine over. Not even a grinding noise.
Thanks for the link to INXS. That's a good starter lesson. I wonder why I never find stuff like that when I search.
There were no gear chunks that I have found in the oil / crank case. I can guess that the starter has not turned for at least two years or more or the last two P.O.'s.
 
Most often why the starter won't turn the engine is the wishbone shaped spring on the #3/#4 gearset. If you look in below and behind the clutch you will see the gearset. You can see the u shaped part of the spring.
When you crank the starter you should see those parts move. The gear set gets pulled in to engage the gear on the crank, to turn the engine.
If they are not turning, on the left side below the drive chain front sprocket is an oval shaped cover. Behind that cover is a gear that hooks the starter to the cross shaft that turns the #3/#4 gears. If that gear is missing, you will need to split the cases to replace it.
 
I went to the inspection panel under the front sproket. Everything looks good here. All the gears are nice and no grinding. The starter is turning these gears but still no engine turn over. I guess the next step is to remove the clutch? So I can inspect the gears behind the clutch, as in the thread listed above by INXS? I'm putting a picture of the gears below. WTF is the black thing sticking out in the top right of the photo Feels like the end of a plastic wire tie.

bikepics-2123708-800.jpg
 
I put the cover under the sprocket back on. When I power the starter the gears under the clutch are spinning, but no cranking. What is next on the progression? Is that lever supposed to kick in? Am I missing something with the battery charger going from the engine case ground to the starter positive?
 
You'll need to inspect the #4 gear assembly next, shown here as the larger gear in the upper right. The smaller lower left gear is the one that ties into those gears you just inspected under the little cover on the left side .....

4GearAssembly.jpg


When the little gear turns the big gear (#5), the #4 starter gear behind it should move in and engage the crank. Sounds like yours is not .....

StarterGear4.jpg


Do you have the drag clip (#3) installed? The #4 gear may not move in and engage without it. It needs to have it's small loop positioned properly as well to anchor it from spinning .....

StarterClipPositions.jpg
 
I do have one other suggestion. I'm by no means knowledgeable about the starer on these bikes but I had something interesting happen on a mercury outboard engine one time. The battery was hooked up and the starter would spin all day long with lots of power but the bendix wouldn't spin up. Everyone was scratching there heads. I noticed that the battery cables were hooked up backwards to the starter. Switched the cables around and it worked perfectly. One of those things that can be a pain to find.
 
In your pic, I don't see the gear that the large gear in the pic engages.
It should be just above and to the left of the gear you see.
The large gear you see turns the gear I can't see. That gear turns a shaft that turns the small gear in 5twins pic. That small gear turns the large gear. As that large gear turns the wishbone clip holds the gear behing the gear you see in the pic. The clip holds the gear from turning as it slides along the angled teeth on the part #1. When the gear has slid as far as it can it engages the gear on the crank and turns the engine.
The gear I can't see and the shaft have to be installed in the lower case before you put the case halve together. If they are not there, then you have to split the cases to install them.
People that rebuild an engine often leave those parts out when reassembling the engine when they plan on just a kick start.
If that gear and the shaft are missing then it's kick start only until you split the cases and install the missing parts.
 
Do you have the Clymer repair manual? On page 86 it shows the breakdown on the starter parts. The gear and shaft I'm talking about are parts #12 and #10.
 
In 5twins pic, both gears circled in red are spinning / turning. I put the kick starter lever back on it's shaft to give it some turns. That worked and turned the engine over. But as I was playing with it I pulled it away from the case and now I guessing I can't get the shaft back into it's home hole / slot, and it doesn't turn the engine any more. Go ahead and tell me I just fucked myself.
I appreciate the advice you guys are giving me.
 
The wishbone needs to be put in a vise and clamped down too and the return spring streched out a bit worked for me
 
the kickstart shaft spring needs to be re-installed to the correct position now. I am sure someone can give you the proper procedure as i only had to do it once and i don't remember.

kickstart and estart work independently of each other.
 

Similar threads

O
1980 XS650 Bobber Build - Starts with electric starter, not kickstarter
Replies
9
Views
274
onimoto
O
C
XS750 question, starter not engaging neutral
Replies
4
Views
638
Bruno_c
B
Carveacre
Crud in the Oil
Replies
18
Views
418
zrx1100
zrx1100
Alberta Dave
Starter trouble shooting
Replies
4
Views
746
badlegbill
badlegbill
I
Starter motor condition question?
2
Replies
34
Views
911
jetmechmarty
jetmechmarty
Back
Top