engine won't turn over...can I have to much compression?

[rich_mcd]

I cant seem to get my engine to run as of recent. It tries to turn but just won't make it there. Sounds like a dead battery but I am getting 12.5-13V on the battery. Same problem even after trickle charging for 2 days.

When kicking, the kicker gets almost stuck sometimes, gotta find a sweet spot when kicking and it still won't turn over.
I recently drained the carbs and the gas was a really dark yellow, so I am assuming I have to clean the carbs out. I also went through the electrical the best I could and everything seemed to be ok. Alternator working, checked with ohmmeter, as well as ignitor coil, rectifier/regulator, spark plug wires, etc, etc. Just can't get it to want to go. It did sound like a misfire before....now it is dead.

THIS BIKE IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!

 

[shotgunjoe]

How does it turn over with the ignition turned off when using the kick starter?

 

[rich_mcd]

it still doesn't want to go. A pain to kick, and doesn't flip over.

 

[shotgunjoe]

Timing chain too tight?

 

[rich_mcd]

that is a good question...how would one go about checking said timing chain?

 

[rich_mcd]

oh, nm, I got it. That's the thing to adjust before I adjust the valves. Also, I did adjust the valves and thought I did it right. Could this be causing it to feel like to much compression?

 

[Sundie]

don't take this the wrong way - how much do you weigh? Good compression on these bikes, and i've seen 150lb guys have issues with kicking them over.

so:
- compression check
- timing check
- are you getting spark
- what do your plugs look like

the usuals, before delving into weird gotchas.

 

[rich_mcd]

Oh I am a heavy boy, lol. 210-215lbs. Checked compression, I thought it was high (170psi or so) I was getting spark but it seemed weak. One plug was ok, the other was getting fouled with oil it seemed like. Never checked the timing (I assume you mean with a timing light)

 

[shotgunjoe]

With power OFF, the ignition timing doesn't matter. You should be able to kick it over.

 

[xjwmx]

If you think compression is why it won't turn over, remove the plugs.

It was turning over at some time in the past, else you wouldn't have been able to set the valves. Did you set the valves right? What's been done since then?

 

[shotgunjoe]

If you think compression is why it won't turn over, remove the plugs.

It was turning over at some time in the past, else you wouldn't have been able to set the valves. Did you set the valves right? What's been done since then?

Ah, yes. Good point. If the exhaust valves aren't opening, or aren't open very far... the engine would have a hard time turning over.

 

[xschris]

170lbs seems to be to high.

 

[rich_mcd]

I thought I set the valves right, it was my first time though. The starting issue had been going on prior to setting the valves though. It used to run ok, changed out the carbs to the kit from mikes as well as straight pipes. New plugs, new oil/filters, new gas tank. That's why I was thinking maybe the carbs and some stale gas. Still doesn't explain the hard kicking, or even the trouble the electric start seems to be having turning it over.

I really appreciate all the quick responses.

 

[shotgunjoe]

Well you need to check the timing chain and the valves then... If you remove the spark plugs and the problem persists, I'd suspect the timing chain too tight.

 

[nezzer]

A sticking clutch can have the same effect, pain in the butt to kick over because the tranny is still transmitting power. With the bike on the center stand, does the rear tire turn much when kick starting or using the electric starter? If so, time to look at the clutch for warped plates or possibly an oil change for something not quite to thick.

If the rear tire doesnt turn much on starting, then resume other troubleshooting, namely taking the spark plugs out and seeing if it turns over easier.... it better anyways.

 

[xjwmx]

^You have the clutch engaged when you kick. Sticking no issue.

 

[WindLvr]

Any chance you have vapor lock? Did you leave the fuel on, and it drained down into engne? It is possible that it could fill your crankcase full causing the engine to seem seized. I have seen this before. It is easy to check too. Check your oil and see if it seems like it is full of fuel. Just an idea here, but worth checking imo.

 

[XSLeo]

How many miles on the engine. On my fesh 650 build I got 165 psi with out the carbs on. The 750 kitted engine got 195 psi.
An old engine can be carboned up. The excess build up makes the chamber smaller.
Start at the beginning, cam chain tension, valves, If points gap and timing. TCI should be ok.
Leo

 

[rich_mcd]

So, here is a recap, I drained the carbs of all the stale old dark yellow gas. The oil when I changed it was black and did smell alot like fuel. Don't remember the amount of miles on it, put a new speedo on it. I added that seafoam stuff to the gas to try and possibly clean out any carbon build up.

Excuse my ignorrance here, when you say kick it over with plugs removed, is that just to see if it becomes easier to kick? Or do you mean ground the plugs to the block and try the starter to just see how it reacts with an outlet for pressure?

Also, neutral is rather hard to find I have noticed and smoetimes the rear wheel will be trying to rotate while starting (noticed when it is on the centre stand)
I have the left side cover off right now and I have no resistance in the kicker, is that because the clutch push rod isnt really engaged?
Thanks again guys

 

[XSLeo]

On pulling the plugs, yes, see how hard it is to kick it over with the kick start. And yes see how it acts with the plugs out and grounded while cranking with the starter.
The oil on the tranny gears can cuase enough drag through the tranny to turn the rear wheel with it on the center stand while cranking and running. If it bothers, you hold the rear brake.
When the bike is just setting there the clutch is engaged. When you pull the clutch lever, this disengages the clutch.
With the left cover off the clutch is engaged. If the clutch is working right then the kick start should turn the engine.
The kick start engages a gear in the tranny, this turns the input shaft of the tranny. The input shaft is hooked to the clutch hub. The clutch plates hook the hub to the basket. The basket is geared to the crankshaft. So the engine turns when the kick start is used.
If the clutch slips the kick start can't turn the engine. With the left side cover off and the clutch slips, the clutch has a problem.
Have you had the clutch apart? If you or a PO has had it apart it may have been assembled wrong.
Leo