First XS650 Build, What to Look For

Ok guys quick update.

Got the call from the shop and the valve seals need to be replaced. Their supplier can't get them, or won't, so it's on me to provide them with some.

The valves themselves are in good condition, as are the guides. So if anyone knows where to find some quality seals, or if you have an aftermarket variant you recommend please let me know.

Looking forward to getting this finished up and the engine back together!
 
Yup, I'm an idiot lol.

After googling them I realized they look very similar to what I remembered seeing in my gasket kit. I do in fact have four of them downstairs.

Good to go. More pics to come as the build progresses. My VM36 is here, with additional brass and a CounterBalanceCycles 2-1 intake kit.
 
Update for you guys. Got the carb, intake and jets here and finally had a chance to throw it all together.

Installed the main, pilot, needle and needle jet and sealed it back up. Now it sits here in this box awaiting final assembly.

ntVItvF.jpg


Also, I removed the air screw from the bell here per the advice of those who came before me, if that's been refuted since the TeeCat thread please let me know. Note absence of jet at 6 o clock in picture below
yNc8gm1.jpg


Quick shot of the head with the valves out
oAj6UhG.jpg


Up close of the old valve seals
XmoIOM4.jpg


New valve seals going in. That o ring doesn't actually belong there, but it fell in when I was taking the picture lol

4xt51i7.jpg


Still debating how to get that drum front brake situation all buttoned up. So many options but I don't know which is best or simplest. Read today that the RD350 drum front wheel from 73-75 uses the same axle diameter and bearings. MikesXS sells the bearings and does indeed list them as the same. 6303. Maybe that's the move?
 
So if the RD350 wheel uses the same bearing, does that make the swap as simple as adding spacers and calling it a day?

I'm assuming that the axles would be the same if the bearings are.

This is the far end of my already limited knowledge, never done a wheel swap before so I was looking for the simplest option for this swap.
 
Well, the spacing is a major part of it, but you also need to anchor the brake plate from turning somehow. Some have a bolt-on strap or stay, something like the rear drum plate. It needs to get bolted to the fork leg, usually at one of the fender mounts. But I think Yamahas do it differently. They have a cleat on the inside of the fork lower that fits into a groove on the brake plate. But, if your fork leg doesn't have that, there is a bolt-on adapter .....

http://www.motolanna.com/ourshop/pr...ront-CNC-Billet-Alloy-Yamaha-SR500-SR400.html
 
Ok cool, the brake anchoring I'm fairly familiar with as I've discussed it in detail with the local shop by me who showed me exactly how we would need to do it if we wanted to weld a flat bar stock onto the fork leg for a cleaner setup.

I might go that route, since it would remove the additional adapter piece which would otherwise clutter up the unit. If welding on the fork leg is unsafe though, then I could certainly use the adapter instead.

To confirm, it's just spacing the wheel and making the anchor then right? I can use my stock axle?
 
It would appear so, if the drum wheel bearings are 17mm I.D. But I don't think you've got an RD350 wheel there. They all had discs.
 
Got it, perhaps mislabeled then. I'll wait on the the wheel until I've got the rest of the unit all buttoned up. I still have the stock wheel which can be a placeholder for the time being.

On another note, the head is back now and all cleaned up! Barely worn the valves at all. They were pretty rusty and gross but after some chemicals did their magic I can see that the valves still have the yamaha logo on them and it's fully raised. A good sign I think.

I'll begin the full reassembly process on Monday as I'm heading home for the weekend to help my parents move.

I'll need to study some diagrams in the meantime though. There are a LOT of little orings still left in that baggy, need to be sure they all find their correct home. Also, any recommendations on a gasket sealant? Do you guys use it between every layer of the top end? (Case/cylidners, cylinders to lower head, lower head to upper head etc...)
 
Worm gear modification complete, should be getting this cover back within a week or so depending on return shipping time. Excited to get it bolted up and start figuring how I'll make the linkage for it. Still not sure whether mids will be comfortable for someone at my height. I tend to want to stretch my legs out on long rides. Maybe a set of forward pegs mounted to the front downtubes would solve that problem. Decisions, decisions...

eWdtPw1.jpg
 
A little more progress tonight, didn't have any gasket sealant on hand, but wanted to see how difficult it would be to get the system aligned and reassembled. Ended up putting the head on, and sliding the cam under the cam chain as well. Sure was a pain getting it in there and back out lol. Need to get some sealant today so I can seat this tonight. Also, there seems to be two different markings on the cam itself. One is a small circle near the teeth, and the other is a rectangular cut closer to the base. These two markings don't line up with each other and I'm wondering which should be at 12 o clock during assembly. In Nightflyer's video it's the rectangular one near the base that he uses as the reference.

Also, he mentions that the engine should be at TDC when aligning this marker. My PMA is not yet installed, should I be doing that first? Maybe I ought to torque down the three bolts that hold the lower head onto the cylinders so that I can rotate the engine to TDC? What's the best way to turn the engine at this stage in the rebuild?

ACUNfqK.jpg


Also, I was pretty worried initially when looking at the remaining orings as I had no idea where they would all go. Upon closer inspection and sorting, it looks like it's really only six locations which will need these installed. One of which I heard nightflyer mention in his assembly video as being under some of the bolts in the heads. Not sure exactly which, but maybe someone here can lend a hand.

22iP0Fe.jpg


Lastly, I purchased this 110v 90amp Flux Core welder. However, it seems that if you read enough about it online anything short of a $4,000 TIG machine is just regarded as a POS. I'm looking to weld simple things like the 3/16" mild steel brackets for the fender, sissy bar, gas tank bungs, brake pivot and whatnot. Is a machine like this going to be capable of doing that? It's not heart surgery, but honestly the reviews have me a bit worried. I haven't opened it yet so I can still return and get something else.

Thanks guys

WG8gh7k.jpg
 
SlowMaintenance said:
Lastly, I purchased this 110v 90amp Flux Core welder. However, it seems that if you read enough about it online anything short of a $4,000 TIG machine is just regarded as a POS. I'm looking to weld simple things like the 3/16" mild steel brackets for the fender, sissy bar, gas tank bungs, brake pivot and whatnot. Is a machine like this going to be capable of doing that? It's not heart surgery, but honestly the reviews have me a bit worried. I haven't opened it yet so I can still return and get something else.
Click to expand...

Hi SlowMaintenance,
it's not that the machine won't do the job, it's that it's limited in what it can do and it's very ownership will deter you from getting a better one.
If you can afford to do so, return it and get a real MIG machine instead.
And whatever welding machine you end up with, best you weld up a whole bunch of lawn ornaments, bicycle racks and garbage can stands before you weld up anything on a vehicle that you will be riding on.
The amateur welder's mantra:- Length replaces strength
 
Got it. I'll return it and get a MIG machine with shielding gas instead. A 220v one at that. Hopefully that will be sufficient for my purposes.

Also, when I spoke with the shop who did the valves they said they didn't need these red orings in here, is that incorrect? Were they supposed to use these as it shows in the photo below? If so, I may have to remove them again. Or let the shop know that they failed to do so.

4xt51i7.jpg
 
I've seen several different recommendations for which sealant to use on the cylinder head gasket. Three bond, yamabond, gaskacinch, copper spray etc.

I want to get this engine buttoned up tonight. Can anyone tell me which they used and how it went? Would rather pick some up locally on my way home tonight.
 
My favorite sealer was the Yamabond #4 or Hondabond #4, same stuff, made by and supplied to them by Threebond. You could get it from Threebond too. I think the number used to be 1104, but now it has changed to 1194 .....

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-Liquid-Gasket-TB1194/dp/B0012TUVAW

I don't think the Honda and Yamaha stuff is the same any more. The formulation has changed and it's now silicone based. You don't want silicone stuff. The original stuff we loved was a gray colored semi drying and hardening liquid. You may get lucky and find a new old tube still on the shelf at your dealer. I bought a couple when I knew they were on their way out. If I ever run out, I will probably go back to what I used before this, Hylomar Blue.
 
As for the o-rings, you won't use them all because some are for parts you didn't remove. Starting on the left of your pic, the two largest black ones are for the points and advance housings. The originals were red, the kit replacements are black. The originals are better and could be re-used if they still look OK. Next, the two red bakelite rings are drain plug sealing washers. These are very good, very long lasting and seal well. I highly recommend using them. The two medium sized black o-rings are probably for the acorn cover nut on the cam chain adjuster. The kit usually only includes one but maybe you got lucky and they stuck two in there. The four small black o-rings are for the rocker shaft end caps, those quarter sized chrome caps with the Philips screwdriver slots, two on each side of the head at the top. You won't need/use these unless you removed those caps. The four larger red o-rings are for the tube sleeves that fit into the four outer stud holes on the top cover. The four smaller red o-rings are for the valve guides. Neither will get used unless you removed those parts.
 
5twins said:
As for the o-rings, you won't use them all because some are for parts you didn't remove. Starting on the left of your pic, the two largest black ones are for the points and advance housings. The originals were red, the kit replacements are black. The originals are better and could be re-used if they still look OK. Next, the two red bakelite rings are drain plug sealing washers. These are very good, very long lasting and seal well. I highly recommend using them. The two medium sized black o-rings are probably for the acorn cover nut on the cam chain adjuster. The kit usually only includes one but maybe you got lucky and they stuck two in there. The four small black o-rings are for the rocker shaft end caps, those quarter sized chrome caps with the Philips screwdriver slots, two on each side of the head at the top. You won't need/use these unless you removed those caps. The four larger red o-rings are for the tube sleeves that fit into the four outer stud holes on the top cover. The four smaller red o-rings are for the valve guides. Neither will get used unless you removed those parts.
Click to expand...

-I'll check points and advance housing orings tonight when I get home.
-Red bakelites ones will def be used for the drain plugs.
-Acorn nut I will use as well.
-Didn't remove the rocker shaft end caps so the 4 black o rings will not be used. (Should I have removed these though? What's the purpose?)
-The "four outer stud holes in the top cover" has me confused. I'll look at the engine tonight and see if I can't figure out what that is.
-Valve guides I don't believe were removed, just the valves themselves and the valve seals so those smaller four red ones also won't be used.

As for the sealant, looks like I'll have to just order it and wait. Nobody around here that carries it.

With regard to the assembly order, what do you guys typically do first at this stage? A lot of the alignment requires the engine to be at TDC, but with no alternator on there that would be a bit tricky. Should I install the PMA first?
 
You only really need to remove the rocker shaft end caps if you're going to remove the rocker shafts and rockers. Or you might remove one if it's leaking oil to replace the o-ring. Or, if you wanted to replace them. Mike's has some nice stainless replacements .....

ButtonHeads.jpg


Have a look at this drawing. #7 is the sleeve through the top cover. There are four of them. #6 is it's o-ring. #2 is the valve guide (#3) o-ring. #24 is the points and advance housing o-ring .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Y...CYLINDER HEAD COVER XS650D - E - E/parts.html

You don't hardly notice the four sleeves in the top cover unless you look close. They're pushed in flush.

You might want to put your original alternator and rotor back on loosely so you can positively find TDC for the cam install. Most of us use the slot on the cam. It faces the left, the side you'll be turning the crank from and looking at the timing marks from (TDC mark). The dot on the other side will align with the head's top gasket surface when the slot faces up at 12 o'clock.
 
I'm still a little confused on that twins. It seems like the only way to know whether the engine is TDC and on the correct stroke is to have the engine assembled so you can feel the rocker shafts. But I can't put it together until I know it's at TDC. Chicken or the egg situation here. Here's what I propose doing, let me know if I'm off base.

Was going to loosely put the alternator back on and rotate the engine until the pistons are as high as they can go. Since the heads are off, it will be very easy to see this since the pistons will be exposed. Once at the highest section, I'll mark the TDC spot on the stock alternator, and finish the engine assembly. From there I'll remove it and make the new TDC mark on the PMA and hopefully be good to go from there.

Did that make sense?
 

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