First XS650 Build, What to Look For

[SlowMaintenance]

Also, I'm struggling a bit to get the kickstarter unit back in. I've watched the youtube video thats out there about this process and it seems like something is still off with mine. No matter how I align it, the teeth on the gears don't seem to match up all the way. It's more like 75% contact and I wanted to check and see if that's normal. Here's how I'm putting it in

Here's two pictures which illustrate where I'm placing what. Usually when I line up the blue and red units, the pink spring is sitting at about 5 oclock. I then use vice grips to pull it counterclockwise and hook it onto that ridge at 12 oclock.

However, when I do this the teeth end up looking like this. It seems like they're not fully seated and nothing I do can seem to get them to line up 100%. Is this how it's supposed to go in? Or am I doing something wrong?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...Was going to loosely put the alternator back on and rotate the engine until the pistons are as high as they can go. Since the heads are off, it will be very easy to see this since the pistons will be exposed. Once at the highest section, I'll mark the TDC spot on the stock alternator, and finish the engine assembly. From there I'll remove it and make the new TDC mark on the PMA and hopefully be good to go from there.

Did that make sense?

As long as your TDC mark is within a couple degrees of True TDC, it should be good enough for getting the camshaft installed, since a 1-tooth misalignment of camshaft will be about 20° of crank rotation, and should be pretty obvious.

Later, after reassembly, redo your mark using piston stops.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Ah yes, just watched a nightflyer video of how to use a piston stop. Seems very simple once you've got the PMA attached. Two marks and then split the difference. I'll definitely do that. Just need to find one of those tools.

Purchased this threebond for the cases, hope it's the correct one

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-Se...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Here's 5twins' sealer links:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12932
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16658
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21530
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21690
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?p=409078#post409078
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?p=453385#post453385

 

[SlowMaintenance]

I've seen a few of these in my searches. Problem is that each one is a thread of debate about whether the stuff currently available is the same as the one he recommends. I just called my local metric dealer and they said they've got yamabond, hondabond and suzukibond. I'll see what those actually look like when I get there after work, hopefully the yamabond is the right one. I believe it's a gray sealant that I'm supposed to be finding. Not a clear or close to clear variant.

 

[5twins]

I don't think I ever looked that closely at the kicker gear to notice how much it mates with the gear in the motor. The simple test would be to fit the side cover. It won't go on all the way if the kicker shaft isn't fully seated. If you do want to re-do the kicker install, simply and using the factory instructions, follow post #8 here. And put those vice grips away, lol .....

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25602

The motor won't have a specific "stroke" until after the cam is installed. It will establish which cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke and which is TDC on the exhaust stroke. So, you don't need to worry about or even consider it, just be sure it is at TDC.

Like I said earlier, I would loosely re-install the original alternator AND rotor so I had a way to set it at TDC using the factory marks.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25602

The motor won't have a specific "stroke" until after the cam is installed. It will establish which cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke and which is TDC on the exhaust stroke. So, you don't need to worry about or even consider it, just be sure it is at TDC.

good point, there is no stroke without the cam lol.

Thanks for the link as well, it looks like the problem is that I'm installing it into the red section (on your post, not mine) you outlined when in your procedure it gets installed in the blue section first and slides off as you rotate the spring assembly. I'll try this tonight when I get home.

Last thing I need is to blow out my knee or have a sloppy kicker on a kick only motorcycle! It's not a Harley after all.

 

[5twins]

If you don't get the install right, it simply won't work, or the cover won't fit back on. If the return spring isn't tensioned properly, it may kick through but the lever won't come back up by itself. This really is a simple procedure once you understand how it has to be to work correctly.

 

[cruzin]

Inside the block where the kickstart goes there is a area that is higher than the rest of it. If you have the blue lines where that odd looking lobe is on the back of the shaft it looks like its covering have of that hight area in the back of the case. That lobe of the shaft needs to be just below that high spot than as you kick it it can travel counter clock wise from about 7 o’clock to 11 o’clock where the case is shallow. If you have that lobe hitting the high area your shaft will not go in all the way.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Swung by the dealership and got some of the necessary sealant. It was indeed gray as I had hoped, but very hard to apply. Felt like squeezing out gum, was very difficult to apply it cleanly, but it did get on there, and on both sides.

I put another bead across the front as well.

Sitting together finally!

Mockup for cam position

Bearings in. As a quick side note, I fear that in the struggling of getting this attached the chain may have moved a little bit. If so, would I have to do this all over again as there is a chance I may have moved slightly from TDC?

Bearings from above

The full shot

Other side

Front view

Chain up close

Was looking at these and noticed they have a small black o ring which sits inside of the oil seal. Could this be what my two larger black orings are for? They match up fairly well.

 

[5twins]

Once you have the cam installed under the chain and timed right, it doesn't matter if the motor turns off TDC a little. As long as the cam hasn't jumped teeth and moved to a different position under the chain, you're still good.

Your cam bearings need to be pushed on the cam as far as they'll go, pretty much right up against the outside lobe. Your points side bearings aren't on all the way, the advance side might be. Tap them in as far as they'll go with a socket that fits on their inner race. When fully seated, the inner bearing will actually hang off the seat in the case a little. I know, it looks wrong, but it's right .....

Then you need to center the cam in the head. Measure the amount of bearing inset on each side and move the cam if need be to make it the same. The bearings need to be set in tight like this so the cam can't "float" side to side during operation. That would throw off the cam chain alignment.

No, there's no o-ring stuck in that housing seal. There should be a spring. Maybe it just looks like an o-ring because it's all dirty.

 

[5twins]

Yes, that Yamabond is rather thick and difficult to apply directly out of the tube. For the thin lines of sealer on the head gasket, I squeeze a little sealer onto a toothpick and use that to "draw" the thin line of sealer I want. For the top cover sealing surfaces, I use one of those little metal handled acid-flux brushes with the bristles cut down about half way. This allows you to "paint" a thin, even coat of sealer on the surfaces.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Good tips! That makes sense about the cam "float," I hadn't thought of that but I see how that would be a bad thing. Here are new pictures with the bearings pushed in.

and one from above again

On another note, the shop had mentioned something about putting oil somewhere in this section. Onto the valves maybe. Something about wanting them to be lubricated before you turn it on. Any thoughts on what or where they might be speaking of?

Also, hit up home depot and copped one of those angle grinders/cutoff wheels and finally prepped this frame for the hardtail. Well...the parts that I can. I didn't want to remove the lower crosstube section yet, something about the frame flexing and using a jig to hold it so it doesn't etc. Going to let the welding shop do that last cut. But here's how she sits right now, sure fits into the back seat a lot easier. Also realized in doing this that the hideous frame bar, springs and rear fender were never stock. Someone must have put all that crap on there to try to cheap out on the build. What an awful look it had.

Cutting tubes and grinding them off (this was so fun actually, so many sparks flying)

All clean

How she sits now

Realizing that you guys are seeing a whole lot of different backdrops in these pics lol. Can you tell my house is not set up for this type of work??

Yes, that Yamabond is rather thick and difficult to apply directly out of the tube. For the thin lines of sealer on the head gasket, I squeeze a little sealer onto a toothpick and use that to "draw" the thin line of sealer I want. For the top cover sealing surfaces, I use one of those little metal handled acid-flux brushes with the bristles cut down about half way. This allows you to "paint" a thin, even coat of sealer on the surfaces.

You beat me to this Twins! I was just going to ask what, if anything, goes in between the next layers. I'll paint a thin coating of this stuff onto the gasket after cleaning it up with some carb cleaner. Please let me know about the oil situation I described above. If so, I'll put some in there and get to sealing so I can start assembling the rest of the engine!

PS: Modified worm gear and cover are back from blacksmithbilly and looking solid. Thanks again brother!

 

[5twins]

If you're going to re-do the head gasket, let me explain how I've changed my application technique. I no longer apply the sealer to the gasket, I put it on the metal parts, the top of the cylinders and the bottom of the head .....

This way, I can more precisely put it where I want it, keeping it out of that little groove around the outside edge of the sealing surface.

For pre-lubing the parts, you could brush the valve springs and tops with oil, just don't get any on the sealing surfaces. What you usually do is lube the cam lobes so the rockers aren't riding on them dry at start-up. They make assembly lube for this. It's kinda like a wet grease you smear on parts during assembly. It lubes them for that initial start but washes off fairly quickly with the motor oil. I suppose you could just smear a little regular grease on them. You can also squirt some oil down into the holes on the top cover that the oil pipes mount to before bolting the tubes on.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Hadn't planned to redo the head gasket, I feel like I got the sealant where it needed to be so I think it will be ok as it sits now.

Going to put the head bolts on though. I'll smear a little grease on the valve springs and cam lobes, brush on a thin layer of sealant on the head, and add a few drops of oil to the bolt holes and get this thing back together.

From there, we're on to the PMA!

 

[theDQG]

I am following this thread religiously. Such a great amount of very useful info here that I'll most certainly use. Please share as much as possible.

 

[5twins]

You don't need to put oil down the bolt and stud holes in the top cover, just fill the holes that the oil pipes bolt to .....

And for the little brushes, HF has them cheap. You'll find multiple uses for them, like applying oil, grease, or sealer to little parts. They work great, once you trim the length down. The bristles get much stiffer once you shorten them up some. They even make nice little parts cleaning brushes .....

http://www.harborfreight.com/36-pc-12-in-horsehair-bristle-acid-shop-brushes-61880.html

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Took the advice of the wise 5twins and scooped some brushes from harbor freight to use for painting on the gasket sealant. After cutting it down to a shorter length it was the perfect strength for painting with, but even still it's a lot like spreading silly putty lol. Here's a shot of the material going on, very hard to see but if you look closely it's applied to half that first area.

Here it is finished

After this, I applied some oil to the valve springs (oiled spring on right, left is up next)

I then painted the gasket sealant onto the opposing surface

NOTE: When assembling these parts, take note of the two circular locating sleeves that are supposed to be installed in the top right and bottom left holes (the holes are slightly larger to accomodate these sleeves so it's easy to know where they go. However, I must have put one back in incorrectly because when I tried to line it up at first the two sleeves were going into the same hole. I removed the head, moved the sleeve to the opposite side and it went on perfectly.

Next I installed the four central hex head bolts and their spacers, as well as the four smaller hex bolts on the outside edges of the head (two front two back). I put these all finger tight.

Here's where the issue lies...it wasn't until just now that I realized I had pried off the four rubber washers from the outer hex head bolts and discarded them. I'm now left with an attached head that can't be torqued down. I fear that this may ruin the gasket surfaces since they'll dry without being mated with pressure. Can anyone weigh in on this? My question is twofold...

1.) Where do I get new washers for those outside hex head bolts? Can I just use any old washer that is the same size as the center ones?

2.) Will I be ok if I just get the spacers and begin torquing the head down (with proper procedure) or will the fact that I waited this long ruin the seal?

Additionally, once I had the head on, there was slight play in all of the valves except for this one. This one doesn't move at all. Not sure what the cause of that could be, any ideas?

Not wanting to slow down, I continued my assembly to prove to myself that I could remember where things go. I started in on the oil line after putting a few drops of oil down each of the holes in the head.

Install the bottom bolt first, don't forget the copper washer underneath it...ask me what I forgot the first time I put it on lol.

Next attach the oil tube to this bolt and get your four copper washers and banjo bolts ready to install at the top. It goes one washer under and one washer over, on each of the bolt holes.

Then tighten in the whole unit

All done

One last thing, I decided to ditch the stripped clutch bolts in favor of a better design with hex heads. Can't hurt

 

[5twins]

You should replace those 4 outside rubber washers with brass or copper washers. The rubber ones are too soft and will let those 4 acorn nuts constantly come loose. This can lead to head gasket leaks. See the pic in post #261.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

You should replace those 4 outside rubber washers with brass or copper washers. The rubber ones are too soft and will let those 4 acorn nuts constantly come loose. This can lead to head gasket leaks. See the pic in post #261.

Will do, hopefully my local hardware store has some appropriately sized ones. If anyone has measurements please let me know, as I'd like to get them this afternoon but I forgot to measure the washers before leaving for work this morning.

Any word on the sealant? Should I redo?