Help: Clutch / Finding Neutral Issues

[fruhstuck]

Alright, first off, to all of you who wished me the best of luck and told me my purchase was well worth it, I wish to thank you. The XS650 is a great bike, there's no doubt about that, and on a straight today I managed to find out that the bike would reach 90mph (clocked by a second bike) and was still pulling, so I have no doubt about the reliability or condition of the bike.

Second, after awhile (aka when my transmission started to heat up) it seemed like my clutch wanted to never disengage. I had quite a few intersections where the bike refused to enter neutral, leaving me with a tired left hand. And, many times, the bike would pull quite significantly at intersections with the clutch pulled as far as the strength my left hand can pull it, as if in gear, and I ran into an incident where the bike had appeared to be in first gear but really was in second, resulting in an embarassing stall mid-intersection.

I have a hunch this has something to do with either my clutch cable stretching or something heating up, or perhaps just a badly set clutch tension. Any ideas? I know my clutch itself is fine because I never witnessed any slippage, just an abudance of grippage when I didn't always want it. Any of you guys have any thoughts short of tightening the clutch cable? I might be doing a 200 mile ride tomorrow, so I'm really hoping I can get this all sorted out overnight. Highways it's no problem, but I won't be on the highway only.

 

[Sundie]

it's the clutch throw out bearing. You might try adjusting your clutch, but all the classic signs are there as you described them.

 

[gonefishin485]

mine use to, and still does the same thing a little bit when its hot

your clutch needs to be adjusted, its a pretty simple procedure


first take your clutch lever and screw the adjuster all the way to get as much slack in the cable as possible, the adjuster is the little round piece with a ring on it that screws into the the clutch perch and goes between the perch and the cable. loosen them up and screw them all the way in. the ring is what locks it in place so you will have to unscrew both a little bit, then you can unscrew the ring back as far as it will go, then screw the adjuster all the way in (hope that isnt too confusing)

then on your left side (kickstand side) there is a little small round cover about the size of a bottle top, pop it off and inside there is a phillips head screw and a locking nut, loosen the locking nut, turn the screw slowly clockwise untill you feel it hit some resistence, as soon as it hits resistence STOP screwing it down, then back that screw out 1/4 turn, hold the screw in place with a screwdriver, and tighten down your locking nut, and replace your cover

come back up to your clutch lever, remember that adjuster we screwed in? well now we have to screw it back out. unscrew the small part of the adjuster untill it tightens up clutch lever to the perch, you want a bout a 2-3mm gap between the lever and the perch where they meet at the cable. in other words, when your pulling the clutch lever, you want a little slack in the lever, before it actually starts pulling the clutch cable.

it sounds complicated, but after you do it once or twice youll see its really simple.

 

[fruhstuck]

@Sundie Oh dear, that sounds like a boatload of trouble that I wouldn't be able to deal with without the set of tools I have access to back at home.

@gonefishin45 Followed your directions to the dot just now, but unfortunately the weather won't allow a ride at the moment and the neighbors really wouldn't take kindly to me starting the bike up right now. End result was that I could easily find neutral... regardless of the clutch. Is that normal? (My lack of experience with bikes is showing here.) I could get the bike to shift down to first (or at least shut of the neutral light), but it didn't seem to actually be in gear as I could still roll the bike around. Is that normal or did I do something wrong?

 

[gonefishin485]

if you had the clutch pulled in it will still roll, drop it in first then let your clutch out and try to roll it around, it should fall down into gear, youll feel it when it does itll jerk and not want to roll, then see what you have

 

[jayel]

I agree probably the bearing behind clutch basket and also clutch worm gear worn or cracked, cable routing is also a possibilty

 

[72XS2]

I have the same problem with my bike. Before trying to adjust it, I removed the clutch completely and find out that it miss a washer where the thrust bearing is. First thig, I will reassemble it to way it suppose to be and after, I will adjust it. I wish it will solve the problem.

 

[fruhstuck]

if you had the clutch pulled in it will still roll, drop it in first then let your clutch out and try to roll it around, it should fall down into gear, youll feel it when it does itll jerk and not want to roll, then see what you have

That's what I thought it'd do... is it perhaps possible I tightened the clutch too much? (that rhymed! ) I'll get a chance in a few hours to get it started and take it out for a spin (cancelled my 200 mile trip plans till I get this sorted out). I've got a hunch I might've done that. I took the word "resistance" to mean it felt like the screw was basically starting to push up against something, and then backed it out 1/4 turn from there. I had felt the screw become marginally more difficult to turn about half a turn earlier from the "stopping point"... is that what you had meant by resistance?

I noticed that the cable adjuster on the clutch lever was almost all the way out already, so I'm hoping this is simply the act of a cable stretching over time. Otherwise... It's time to crack this sucker open and get some parts!!

 

[retiredgentleman]

From a safety point of view, its not a good idea to put the bike in neutral at every stop light. I've seen where a vehicle ahead has tried to back-up and he may not see you (especially if its a large truck). Better to stay in first gear so that you can get out of the way quickly. Your left hand will strengthen in time.

The free play at the clutch lever should start about 1/16" when engine is cold. When the engine warms up that gap will get bigger, causing difficulty finding neutral. I re-adjust the freeplay as needed to keep that 1/16". Its so easy, I re-adjust while riding.

Another tip involves the shift drum neutral detent spring. The spring has likely lost tension over 30 years or more. The detent nut has a hollow that the spring fits down into. I removed the nut and spring. I installed a piece of metal of about 1/8" into the hollow and replaced the spring and nut. Neutral is now much easier and more positive to find. You can try different thicknesses to see how it works.

 

[fruhstuck]

@retiredgentlemen Good to know about the neutral-at-intersection habits!! My problemis that the clutch is still partially engaging, so right now I have to give the engine gas to keep it from stalling, while simultaneously applying brake. It's a bit awkward. I'll keep in mind your fix... I'll be home and able to ride in about three hours, and then I'll update everybody on the status of my bike!!!

 

[Sundie]

@rg's solution: that's a good thing to keep in mind, but it only fixes things if your detent is twitchy. if, with the bike off, you can find neutral easily, that's not going to solve your issue.

the problem is most likely the throwout bearing. if you can't get it better after some cable adjustment, it's def the bearing. the old style stock bearing only had like 8 or so rollers, whereas the replacement is rollerful (as seen in the pic above). What's happening is that the roller bearing is seizing up, and won't allow easy movement between the inner and outer clutch, thus putting pressure on the gears, which is resisting you pulling it out of gear. Yours sounds pretty bad, if you have to put the brake on as well to hold it in place.

 

[XSLeo]

Is your cable well lubed? I have found that neutral is harder to find when the cable needs lubing.

 

[fruhstuck]

To update everybody...

Went out to my bike, and found out that much my problem appears to stem from my PO's forward-positioned footpeg modifications. Independent of the clutch, if I gave the shift lever a more controlled and abrupt press (or pull), I was able to get the bike into first, neutral, and second gear with and without the clutch (and before even warming up the bike). I could also definitely locate the friction spot on the clutch release, something I hadn't quite ever been able to do before.

Happily, I took the bike out for a spin. Initially I had set the clutch lever too tight, and the friction spot was dangerously close to a complete release of the lever. I pulled over, remedied this problem my adjusting the cable length via the adjuster at the lever. Then I went out for a more spirited ride in an attempt to figure out if my clutch was in any way slipping due to an improper setting. Never once had the engine's RPMs go out of sync with the speedometer, which I feel to be a good thing. Neutral was exceptionally easy to find at every stop which I wanted it, as was first gear without the clutch grabbing and making life miserable. All-in-all, feeling quite happy. I still may have a throw-out bearing that is slowly giving up, but for now I'm quite happy with the handling I've achieved.

@XSLeo
I think the cable could use some oil, although that'll have to wait awhile till I can either find some for free or head to my parents' or get paid in about a week. Right now, though, the only issue I can see this helping with is a rather hard-to-pull clutch handle- although in reality I think this is more a feature of the bike than an actual problem.