Correct. Have a read here on Bobs homemade reg/rec. Also a comment or two there on Mikes and some others....
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How do I test my stock alternator
- Thread starter 79josh81
- Start date
Dismiss the nylon screw idea from your head............It is a non issue.........It will only confuse
To much confusion about this...........The only time a nylon screw mod is even considered is if you have the wrong part............
This was first posted as a way to marry the later 80-84 Factory Solid State combined Regulator to a 70-79 bike that had a separate Regulator and rectifier.
NOTE; There are after market Combined Solid State Reg/Rect made for the specific models....either 70-79 or 80-84.........It is up yo you to ask when purchasing, and make sure you by the right part that suits your bike........
To much confusion about this...........The only time a nylon screw mod is even considered is if you have the wrong part............
This was first posted as a way to marry the later 80-84 Factory Solid State combined Regulator to a 70-79 bike that had a separate Regulator and rectifier.
NOTE; There are after market Combined Solid State Reg/Rect made for the specific models....either 70-79 or 80-84.........It is up yo you to ask when purchasing, and make sure you by the right part that suits your bike........
For reliability consider what is suggested to help you here when replacing your reg/rec. These are reliable units when properly put together and will not cost you much. Lots of guys here are electronic engineers/technicians and know lots about how things are put together and need to function. I would trust these guys hands on builds with ridden and proven miles on these units before I would buy any of Mikes electronics.
I have to sound off....What a mess this stock alternator business has become on this forum.
Nylon screw, nylon screw, nylon screw.....LET'S JUST CALL THIS A CONVERSION FOR THE EARLY ALTERNATORS SO THAT THEY CAN USE A MODERN, RELIABLE REGULATOR. Best thing to do is change your regulator, whether the original is bad or not.
Scott
Nylon screw, nylon screw, nylon screw.....LET'S JUST CALL THIS A CONVERSION FOR THE EARLY ALTERNATORS SO THAT THEY CAN USE A MODERN, RELIABLE REGULATOR. Best thing to do is change your regulator, whether the original is bad or not.
Scott
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Yes it is a mess.................Highlighted in red is wrong...........Wrong because it does not differentiate that there are 2 different types of Solid State Combined Reg/Rect for the 2 different charging types..........You can buy 79-79 Solid state Reg/Rect.......and........You an buy 80-84 Solid State Reg/Rect.........
70-79 type
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...313&_nkw=Regulator/Rectifier+#ESR350&_sacat=0
80-84 type
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...1313&_nkw=Regulator/Rectifier+ESR320&_sacat=0
MikesXS also sells the different Solid state combined Reg/ Rect.......
One for a 70-79 Points model, (US),
one for an 80-84 Factory Electronic Ignition, (TCI), Model, (US)
It's not quiet that simple Scott.....
The purpose of the regulator for the alternators we're dealing with here is to supply power to the rotor to create the magnetic field. The more power (current), the bigger the magnetic field... The bigger the field.... the higher the output voltage.... We all know this right? What seems to get lost in translation is the method of controlling that field current. Yes Virginia... there's two ways....
On the 80 and newer bikes the battery sends the power to the rotor (one brush) and the regulator controls the ground side (other brush) to regulate the field strength. Hence both brushes need to be isolated from ground. This is called an "A circuit regulator." Remember, that's for 80 and newer bikes.
79 and older bikes use a "B circuit type regulator." The regulator controls the field by varying the power going to one brush and the second brush is grounded to complete the circuit.
Both types can be had as solid state. A VR-115 is a "B type" and is commonly used to make your own for the 79 and earlier. A VR-794 is an "A type" and is commonly used for the 80 and newer. The nylon screw only comes into play if you want to put a VR-794 (A type) in your 79 and older bike because you need to un-ground the grounded brush.
The purpose of the regulator for the alternators we're dealing with here is to supply power to the rotor to create the magnetic field. The more power (current), the bigger the magnetic field... The bigger the field.... the higher the output voltage.... We all know this right? What seems to get lost in translation is the method of controlling that field current. Yes Virginia... there's two ways....
On the 80 and newer bikes the battery sends the power to the rotor (one brush) and the regulator controls the ground side (other brush) to regulate the field strength. Hence both brushes need to be isolated from ground. This is called an "A circuit regulator." Remember, that's for 80 and newer bikes.
79 and older bikes use a "B circuit type regulator." The regulator controls the field by varying the power going to one brush and the second brush is grounded to complete the circuit.
Both types can be had as solid state. A VR-115 is a "B type" and is commonly used to make your own for the 79 and earlier. A VR-794 is an "A type" and is commonly used for the 80 and newer. The nylon screw only comes into play if you want to put a VR-794 (A type) in your 79 and older bike because you need to un-ground the grounded brush.
Realized the "solid state" and edited while you were posting Skull.
I won't be bitten by the aftermarket and stock rattlesnake regulators ever again.
Scott
I won't be bitten by the aftermarket and stock rattlesnake regulators ever again.
Scott
Realized the "solid state" and edited while you were posting Skull.
I won't be bitten by the aftermarket and stock rattlesnake regulators ever again.
Scott
I won't be bitten by the aftermarket and stock rattlesnake regulators ever again.
Scott
Mikes 70-79 Solid State Combined Reg/Rect
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-solid-state-rectifier-regulator-70-79.html
Mikes Fucked up and adds to the confusion
The instruction PDF for Mikes 70-79 Solid State Combined reg/rect is wrong...................It is the instructions for his 80-84 Solid State Combined Reg/Rect. He is using the 81 Simplified Wiring diagram first posted over at 650Rider and re-posted in the thread "Wiring diagrams" in the "Tech Menu"
Mikes 80-84 Solid State Combined Reg/Rect.
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-rectifier-regulator-80-84-oem-type-oem-3g1-81960-51.html
I use the long term............Solid State Combined Reg/Rect because there is a Solid State Single Reg for points model bikes that have a separate Regulator and Rectifier
Mikes Solid State Regulator...........Single not combined
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-rectifier-fits-70-79-650-s-oem-447-81970-10-00.html
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-solid-state-rectifier-regulator-70-79.html
Mikes Fucked up and adds to the confusion
The instruction PDF for Mikes 70-79 Solid State Combined reg/rect is wrong...................It is the instructions for his 80-84 Solid State Combined Reg/Rect. He is using the 81 Simplified Wiring diagram first posted over at 650Rider and re-posted in the thread "Wiring diagrams" in the "Tech Menu"
Mikes 80-84 Solid State Combined Reg/Rect.
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-rectifier-regulator-80-84-oem-type-oem-3g1-81960-51.html
I use the long term............Solid State Combined Reg/Rect because there is a Solid State Single Reg for points model bikes that have a separate Regulator and Rectifier
Mikes Solid State Regulator...........Single not combined
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-rectifier-fits-70-79-650-s-oem-447-81970-10-00.html
No wonder people read this stuff and buy a PMA.
.......
I tried to keep this Nylon screw confusion out of my posts.........Only to be used if the wrong part is bought or at hand...........There is no reason to do a nylon screw conversion because ..........the Correct parts are available.......... It is a matter of making sure you buy the correct part for the correct model bike......If unsure what model bike you have....... Ask ............If not sure what type of Regulator or Solid State Combined Reg/Rect you need for your bike...........Ask
I understand Doug.... I just pointed it out because I don't think the OP understood the reasoning behind it.
The other opinion.....convert the early alternators with a nylon screw and wire them for the type A regulator.
There ARE better type A regulators out there and a whole lot of junk.
Scott
There ARE better type A regulators out there and a whole lot of junk.
Scott
This thread will probably sell at least 10 more PMA's.
79josh81
XS650 Addict
I get the nylon screw thing now. I’m only going to buy a PMA at this point if it costs too much to fix the stock charging system with whatever I figure out is wrong with it.
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Sorry for hijacking your thread. That was not my point at all. The stock charging system is not as complicated or as expensive to maintain as these threads turn out to be.
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79josh81
XS650 Addict
No worries man. I’m heading outside right now to run step by step through the list and hopefully figure out what’s going on. I just appreciate the insight from everyone. Hopefully people will be around today because I’m sure I’m going to have some questions while I run through the list.
79josh81
XS650 Addict
so im doing all this shit right now and i read that if the brushes are any shorter than 7mm they need to be replaced. Is that 7mm total length or 7mm from the rotor end of the brush to the scribe line in the middle of the brush?
That's total length of the brush. The scribed line is the wear indicator mark. If you were to measure from that line to the top, wired end of the brush, you'd find it to be about 7mm. When new, the brushes are about twice that long.
79josh81
XS650 Addict
Thanks man. Well then I'm good on the brushes.
