Hybrid xs650

[royfisk]

Give people access to unlimited info via the web a suddenly everyone's an "expert". lol

The "Law of Conservation of Energy" argument is my favorite skeptic's go to objection. You obviously didn't take the time to read my explanation, so I will try to explain it again:

With the partial exception of only the newest fuel injected gas vehicles (which are typically quite efficient overall and only see an average of 5-15% mpg gains), our engines just aren't very efficient overall because we only fully combust from about 13-20% of our current fuels (excluding fuel recapturing systems).

This means whenever you see black soot being ejected from a vehicle, that vehicle's owner is WASTING MONEY. Particulate matter, NOX, hydrocarbons, and everything else are the result of Inefficient Combustion. Hydrogen increases the rate and temperature of your burn across the top of the piston every time, before being ejected as a water vapor (after being combusted).

So there's you're "missing energy" right there! Blowing out your tailpipe. I agree that money should stay in the pockets of those that earn it. I've worked with these guys for going on three years. I have tens of thousands of hours working with these things over that period and am DAMN PROUD of our results.

Please note that these dyno results were performed by a third party auto shop. Also, please take a peak at the Ronn Scorpion if you're at all interested in seeing a beautiful example of an HHO system on a modern super car.

For only the greatest cynics out there, this company used one of our competitor's products on their long haul trucks several years ago, before unfortunately having to discontinue their use. I've actually talked to the head of their fleet. I dare you to tell him that he was "imagining" saving $700 per month per truck!

Haters gonna hate... The fact is that many people aren't going to believe it until they experience it. That's ok by me.

Please keep the question on point, however.
Calling me a "blood sucking leach" while demonstrating no hands-on knowledge of actually hho experience doesn't really move the conversation forward much, does it?

Thanks everyone for your interest!

hmm not good with math either going on three years with these guys, (IF YOU HAD A FULL 3 YEARS WITH THEM YOU COULD ONLY POSSIBLY HAVE 26280 HOURS) Thats with no other activities in your life period.

 

[txpowdercoater]

Fair enough 650skull. I guess this post was premature then. It will probably be years before I get this bike into prime condition, if ever. I'm leaving for the peace corps for 2 years next summer so this summer is all I have left to work on the bike and I doubt I'll get everything done I want to get done. So maybe check back in like 5 years if it must be in prime condition for these tests. But in the meantime, are there any reccomendations you have for helping with gas mileage? My carbs are in really good tune, cam chain is in adjustment and valves are adjusted. What else can I do ? I do currently have BPR6EIX plugs in, will switching to 7s help with gas mileage? Also I have stock ignition system, perhaps getting a pamco would boost my mpg as well?

my bike is '81 stock electronic ignition, stock carbs, stock motor with 6,000 miles. I weigh 160 and the gear was an easy 75# of tools, extra fuel (which others took advantage of), oil, camping gear, clothes, food and water.
I run premium fuel, I even checked my speedo against others on the run this week, spot on and averaged 50 mpg, as high as 56 on one stretch of roads, some coasting but still had to haul ass up the other side, so I figure it all evens out.

 

[txpowdercoater]

I have to go install my turbo inlet swirl device that will revolutionize the internal combustion engine if I can just stop the government and oil companies from shutting me down

Damn the man!!!

 

[650Skull]

Fair enough 650skull. I guess this post was premature then. It will probably be years before I get this bike into prime condition, if ever. I'm leaving for the peace corps for 2 years next summer so this summer is all I have left to work on the bike and I doubt I'll get everything done I want to get done. So maybe check back in like 5 years if it must be in prime condition for these tests. But in the meantime, are there any reccomendations you have for helping with gas mileage? My carbs are in really good tune, cam chain is in adjustment and valves are adjusted. What else can I do ? I do currently have BPR6EIX plugs in, will switching to 7s help with gas mileage? Also I have stock ignition system, perhaps getting a pamco would boost my mpg as well?

Quote Pandorasglocks: I have mikes 2-1 headers with the reverse cone megaphone, first two products here : http://www.mikesxs.net/products-44.html#products . And pod filters. I went two up on my pilots and 4 up on my mains (the biggest main). I still need to do some more in depth tests but I'm thinking of raising my needle one slot as well as the mid range seems a little hesitant. Unquote.

Here is your problem, i suggest you read up on your carbs. The 650 Garage has the gurus guide to these carbs and you will find more here if you do the research. Xs john has a solution for the 34's as well.

 

[Teebs]

Do you know how to tell if something is bullshit? NO STATISTICAL DATA. Any reputable product will have data compiled from hundreds or thousands of trials, on every conceivable benefit and detriment. The first for marketing and the second for liability.

Your friend can't seem to produce actual facts, NOT testimonials. Which is what you are supplying. Since your bike is far from efficient in its fuel consumption, and is not statistically representative of the mean economy of the XS650, the numbers you provided have no value. With a bike running that poorly, pissing in the tank could improve your mileage. It probably won't, so I wouldn't advise trying it. But again, I don't have any data to support that.

ROYFISK wrote: "hmm not good with math either going on three years with these guys, (IF YOU HAD A FULL 3 YEARS WITH THEM YOU COULD ONLY POSSIBLY HAVE 26280 HOURS) Thats with no other activities in your life period."

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. 3 years at 40 hours = 6248 (I even added a leap day.) Hell, 3 years at 60 hours is only 9368. And he's been there "going on" three years.

Incidentally, GoHypod managed to make it to his fourth post before resorting to name-calling and condescension. Your friend is a douche.

 

[Pandorasglocks]

Ok so I see we are still not done with flaming.

ANYWAY. So I put a piece of aluminum foil on the hose from the unit and turned it on for 30 mins, no damage what so ever to the foil. Next I made a mixture with the sodium hydroxide and distilled water and it ate through the aluminum. So on the productive side of this form, it seems as if the gas is not corrosive to aluminum but the mixture is. Which brings me again to my concern in the OP. Looks like I will need to rig something up to block the passage of water while allowing the gas.

Next on the productive side of this topic, the draw from the units. It would appear as if the draw from both units is too much for MY bike to handle. The bike is dipping around 12V with it idleing and the units on, and only barely going up at 2-6k rpm (I was afraid the bike would vibrate off of it's stand at anything higher then 6k). So my next test will be to see how much having only a single unit on effects the draw.

Until then, can we stop the flaming please?

Oh and teebs, I believe my friend was called a "blood sucking leach" prior to his 4th post. Not that it excusing anything but it does bring some perspective.

650SKull: I did go by that guide when tuning my carbs, what would you suggest? Lowering the needle? I went with the highest mains I could get and have no break up at the upper range so it did not seem necessary to drop the needle. Am I wrong?

 

[royfisk]

well obviously you never looked into a xs chargeing system before because they are marginal at best. Ive seen lots of bikes that wont keep a battery charged because the owners only ride them here to the store, yet you take them out on rides real rides and there fine. thats because they dont produce alot of electricity. If I remember correctly I think its 30 amps?? Someone correct me if I am wrong. Now subtract for the ignition, lights. and how much is left over for chargeing purposes? And you want to run what?? At least you figured out whats going on in your engine with that concoction eating up your alluminum internals. Hows the compression? No wonder it will only go 85-90 topend and get 35-40 miles per gallon. Heck those are american motorcycle numbers. Back to the chargeing most of us are trying to cut back on electricity use to gain more power for the chargeing circuit. We do that by doing things like using led bulbs were possible, and running lights out whenever possible. But you want to use more electricity? Let me know how that works for you... Personally dude through that contraption in the trash, port your head, open up your exhaust, and tune the bike and enjoy much better results ten what you are reporting at this time. A freind of mine tried hydrogen on his car and spent lots and lots of cash to get same lame results you are reporting. His junk is in the trash now and he is putting his cash into real usefull items to make his car more fuel efficient. Besides that these bikes are fuel efficient anyhow, compare millage with any of todays bikes and you will see what I mean. 50 plus mpg is NORMAL. Anything less and your not tuned properly. Mine will easily top 100 mph and maybe more, Im not looking at the clock at that speed on the street and 30 plus year old mc.

 

[pyrocentric]

So let me get this straight...
You're using hydrolysis to produce hydrogen to feed into an engine which then has to produce enough charge to power the hydrolysis? I've always been told this type of system operated at a net loss. The only way it might could get ahead is if there was some powerful catalyst aiding the hydrolysis...or a proper fuel cell.

My bike will barely produce enough current to run the headlight.

 

[Pandorasglocks]

Your right royfisk, I have never looked into the charging system. I've also never checked the compression (like I've said on this topic over and over, I am a noob). But please remember that my mpg and top speed went up with these, not down. Also, if any of that mixture got into my engine it was a negligible amount, I put one ounce of water in each and they have yet to use 1/4 of that. I know my bike is not in tip top shape, if you read the whole thread you'll see where I explain that I got it for $400 and had absolutely no knowledge of engines/carbs/electrical systems/ or anything to do with the machine.

I just googled open exhaust if that proves to you how much of a noob I am and I still am unsure as to what it means, no muffler ??

 

[royfisk]

OK I may be being a bit hard on you but open exhaust is a free flowing muffler and head pipe, You see if you look at a stock head pipe it is actually 2 pipes in one. IN other words theres 2 pipes on each side of the bike. The inner one is actually about 5/8 inch diameter, not the 3/4 it appears to be on the outside. This restricts exhaust flow, so does the restrictive mufflers. Personaly I run 3/4 inch head pipes and super trapp mufflers. This allows for the back pressure to be adjustable to the tune of my bike. Cost well around $450.00. I also run mikuni vm 34mm carburators on a air box. cost aroud $350.00. Port the head. cost your labor and 20 bucks in materials. This is really minor modifications that give unbeleivable results. My personal bikes get much more ivolved then this, thats why my xsl bike's engine is not done yet. But those mods along with a good ignition system such as pamco (COMPLETE SYSTEM) will give you 50-65 mpg religously. also stock gearing will pull around 122 mph. Now the upper end of the fuel millage and mph is on ideal flat level surface. 65 mpg was recorded at 35 mph on flat level roads in arizona. I know we all dont have them conditions but the bikes are capable of it. I tell people to expect 50 in new england, but have heard of 55 here. How many of us ride 35 mph everywhere anyways?

 

[Teebs]

Ok so I see we are still not done with flaming.

ANYWAY. So I put a piece of aluminum foil on the hose from the unit and turned it on for 30 mins, no damage what so ever to the foil. Next I made a mixture with the sodium hydroxide and distilled water and it ate through the aluminum. So on the productive side of this form, it seems as if the gas is not corrosive to aluminum but the mixture is. Which brings me again to my concern in the OP. Looks like I will need to rig something up to block the passage of water while allowing the gas.

Next on the productive side of this topic, the draw from the units. It would appear as if the draw from both units is too much for MY bike to handle. The bike is dipping around 12V with it idleing and the units on, and only barely going up at 2-6k rpm (I was afraid the bike would vibrate off of it's stand at anything higher then 6k). So my next test will be to see how much having only a single unit on effects the draw.

Until then, can we stop the flaming please?

Oh and teebs, I believe my friend was called a "blood sucking leach" prior to his 4th post. Not that it excusing anything but it does bring some perspective.

Well, brother. You can BELIEVE it all you like, it won't make it true. Any more than believing in fairies will make them real, or believing in H2Hypod's setup will give you a net energy gain. It's ALL bullshit.

Flaming? Very little has actually been said to you directly. It's the company mouthpiece that got on people's nerves. Someone is WAY too sensitive.

 

[gggGary]

Hey I called 'im a BSL after I was called a troll. By a poster with FOUR posts, all on this thread. Hmmph, got my dander up don't you know? Anyway I have cooled off and will remove that reference in my OP. So you are hearing it from all sides and not all nicey nicey. But the fact stands that your best friend is a well tuned motorcycle. It is preached here all the time when great projects are discussed: Start with a stock bike and get it running (well) BEFORE making changes. How can you know what does and doesn't work till it runs as the factory built it? Some guys with a load of experience might be able to short cut but for most of us getting familiar with the bike will make us better owners and later on modifiers.
Gary who spent at least four hours today working on the fuel system of a STOCK 77 roadster. And I have at least 4 more to go before I turn to oil, filters and electric THEN I will try to start it for the FIRST time. Because that is the right way to work on old bikes. Sure I have done it other ways, taken shortcuts, but this way is the best for me.
PS whether or not you keep going with your h2hypod, check your alternator brushes, if they are worn replace them. 5 to 8,000 miles between brush replacements is normal.

 

[GoHyPod]

gggGary,

I wanted to apologize for my message board etiquette. The troll quip was in response to the assertion that either Pandorasglocks or I were spammers, which is not the case. I don't care what you or anyone else does with their bikes, I just want everyone to enjoy their ride as much as possible.

I have merely tried to add my understanding for why it works. Our product is based on theory, yes, however a theory can be tested and either proven or dis-proven over time.

Fortunately I see that another member (cruza, have you designed your own, used a kit, or purchased something pre-built, and what has been your experience with HHO?), can vouch for the fact that HHO can do SOME interesting stuff.

Again, I apologize to the board community for any enflamming remarks, it was not my intent and it quickly got out of hand.

Have a good night, everyone.

 

[Pandorasglocks]

I guess I must be blessed with a fairly well functioning charging system because I have never had a problem with the battery dieing, so I was just assuming (key word) that it could handle another 8-10 amps of draw. One good thing about the hypods is that you can adjust their draw by the concentration of chemical in the water. So I definently either need to go to one unit or adjust them both and try to keep two (I just got an old trail 70, perhaps I could put one on that and see the reaction at the trail 70 forums )

I was reading in my haynes manual and it says the alternator charging output is 11 amps at 2k rpm and 16 amps at 5k rpm. Does this mean that on a properly wired and electrically equipped bike there are 11 amps going to the charging circuit at 2k rpm? 8-10 amps does seem like a heavy load on that, perhaps with 4-6 I can still get the battery charging while riding. I will test this tomorrow.

gggGary: I inspected my brushes for the first time today and one is around .3 of an inch and one is around .4 so definitely time to replace them. If I knew it was so easy to do I would have a long time ago lol. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[XSLeo]

The book specs are what the alternator puts out. From that ouput you have to deduct what the bikes uses.
The rotor draws about 4.5 amps, the ignition about the same 4.5, headlight 3.5, tail light .5, brake light 1.8, all the dash and indicator bulbs 1, turn signals 1.8 each bulb, two at a time 3.7. total 18.5 amps
Generally speaking you aren't running everything at once or very long. If we knock of the turn and brake light thats 18.5 - 3.7-1.8 = 13 amps
At a 16 amp output at 5000 rpm - 13 = 3 amps to charge the battery. Most people don't or can't run at 70 mhp or faster to put out the full 16 amps. At around 3500-4000- rpm is what most people cruise at. This produces 13 to 14 amps.
My question is where are you going to find an extra 8-10 amps.

 

[royfisk]

This is fruitless, I think im going to get a goldwing aspencade.

 

[pyrocentric]

Goldwings are fantastic. Especially for two-up riding. It's like cruising down the interstate in a lazyboy recliner.

 

[royfisk]

thats me where are the vidio games

 

[Pandorasglocks]

Thanks for the info Leo, my god the 650 generates almost nothing! Well I just ordered a pamco green coil that pete says draws 3.5 so theres one amp! I have aftermarket instruments so I'll check the draw from my headlight wire (just headlight and the instruments on it). I could always turn off the tach light, and speedo for that matter, I rarely do any night riding. I saw somewhere a mod for LED turn signals, and maybe go LED for brakelight and taillight? I'm definently going to take one unit off and just split the hose to both carbs and set the unit to draw 3-4. It might turn out that I can only use this thing when highway riding, only time will tell at this point!

EDIT: I mispoke, the pamco green coil draws an average of 1.3 amps, so theres 3.2 amps =)

 

[cruza]

hey go hypod, friggin tired just finished 4 x18 hr days, so my info mite be wrong, firstly s
olution is potasium hydocloride or lye and i thought it corroded cast iron? i agree with the forum that a well sorted motor in good nick is the best way to get MPG . . if you want to experiment with hydroxy well and good , but it is bloody dangerous with out a bublier.best results ive seen are 5 to 15% increase in mpg but cuts pollution quite a bit.if thats what your into. i would keep up playing with your units cause your going to learn heaps, if you pm me i will give you a good forum doing good work. pandoraglocks, i would take the units off for a while but definitly not throw them away, theyre good for many things, welding, running electric motors thru pm units etc.will also send you some good forum sites ,but while on the thread, has any one had any good sucess with acetone?