Yes, as Pete said, do check the lengths of your brushes when you get them. Your bike may be low mileage but the bike they came from may not have been. The loose brushes Pete pictured above are from a '79 or earlier model. As you can see, the brackets differ. Yours will not be that way. Both yours will be the same, like the right one in Pete's pic with the single mounting hole/tab. That means your can swap them inside to outside occasionally if you like, and that's not a bad idea. The brush in the outer spot will wear a bit faster than the inner one because it's slip ring is a larger diameter than the inner one. For every revolution, it cover more distance. So, swapping their positions from time to time can equalize the wear.
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John's Build Thread
- Thread starter john69
- Start date
Great point 5Twins!
John: if you need to buy new brushes, be sure you order the ones for the correct year of your bike.
Pete
John: if you need to buy new brushes, be sure you order the ones for the correct year of your bike.
Pete
john69
XS650 Enthusiast
So I am in the process of installing my freshly cleaned and rebuilt carburetor's and hopefully cleaned fuel tank with rebuild petcock. Following what seemed to be good advise I gleaned from this forum I purchased a small in line fuel filter. (there seems to be numerous opinions on the correct type). After a trial fit with the carbs and fuel tank I could not find space available for the engine breather lines that run from the top of the engine and route along the fuel line to the air boxes. (see attached photo). Anyone else encountered this problem?
Is there much difference in brushes (brands) when ordering replacements?
Attachments
Brushes - hmmm..well, most folks go for OEM parts whenever they can but if you cannot get Yamaha parts, then the aftermarket brushes seem OK as far as I can tell. Certainly, you need some brushes, and if the ones you get are too short, then get whatever ones you can, with a preference for OEM parts.
The area in and around the carbs and below the fuel tank on an XS650 is waaaayyyy to tight for everything to fit in easily.
Using aftermarket pod air filters may make things easier, but those have their own pitfalls (the K&N pleated ones don’t work well with stock XS650 carbs) and you give up stock appearance - which may or may not matter to you. The upside of pods is that you can ditch the stock airboxes and save some space in that crowded part of the bike. Certainly, a lot of folks use pod air filters of various types but some tuning may be required to get the jetting correct for good operation.
As for fuel filters, generally, a bigger filter is always desirable because it can filter more stuff (Air / fuel / oil / whatever..) before it becomes clogged, but in this case, you want the smallest possible fuel filter simply because it will be easier to fit. I have had good luck with some teeny-tiny little conical units and some folks use little rectangular filters. Anything bigger than the smallest size - will likely be extremely difficult to fit into the available space and you do not want any pinched or sharply kinked hoses.
One trick I have used on my ‘76 Standard (the redoubtable Lucille
) is to feed the LH carb with the RH petcock and vice versa. That allows the fuel lines to be a little bit longer which helps to fit things in - like fuel filters and the crankcase vents.
I guess your bike, as a later model, will have only one fuel inlet to feed both carbs (the early bikes had one inlet per carb).
Anyhow, the fact that you are struggling to fit everything in - is no surprise to me.
The area in and around the carbs and below the fuel tank on an XS650 is waaaayyyy to tight for everything to fit in easily.
Using aftermarket pod air filters may make things easier, but those have their own pitfalls (the K&N pleated ones don’t work well with stock XS650 carbs) and you give up stock appearance - which may or may not matter to you. The upside of pods is that you can ditch the stock airboxes and save some space in that crowded part of the bike. Certainly, a lot of folks use pod air filters of various types but some tuning may be required to get the jetting correct for good operation.
As for fuel filters, generally, a bigger filter is always desirable because it can filter more stuff (Air / fuel / oil / whatever..) before it becomes clogged, but in this case, you want the smallest possible fuel filter simply because it will be easier to fit. I have had good luck with some teeny-tiny little conical units and some folks use little rectangular filters. Anything bigger than the smallest size - will likely be extremely difficult to fit into the available space and you do not want any pinched or sharply kinked hoses.
One trick I have used on my ‘76 Standard (the redoubtable Lucille
) is to feed the LH carb with the RH petcock and vice versa. That allows the fuel lines to be a little bit longer which helps to fit things in - like fuel filters and the crankcase vents.I guess your bike, as a later model, will have only one fuel inlet to feed both carbs (the early bikes had one inlet per carb).
Anyhow, the fact that you are struggling to fit everything in - is no surprise to me.
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I highly recommend you seek out and use O.E.M. brushes. The quality of the aftermarket offerings is hit and miss, and sometimes the bracket is too tall as well. Then the brush won't sit down into the holder as tightly as it should. These brushes pop up all the time on eBay. You want the "81611" brush like so .....
The earlier inner brush with the larger 3 hole mounting bracket is the "81612" number. You don't want this one for your model .....
The aftermarket brushes go for between $15 to $20 a set. With a little searching, it's pretty easy to find originals for that or even less.
The earlier inner brush with the larger 3 hole mounting bracket is the "81612" number. You don't want this one for your model .....
The aftermarket brushes go for between $15 to $20 a set. With a little searching, it's pretty easy to find originals for that or even less.
Yup, agree fully with 5Twins.
Now, here’s another little trick for finding OEM Yamaha parts: just enter the entire Yamaha part number into your google search window. You may be amazed at how many of just what you need, comes up at a reasonable price.
Finding those Yamaha part number is really important information.
Just one more tip (for now) - get yourself a set of JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) screwdrivers. What looks like Phillips screws on your bike - are NOT Phillips. They are all JIS screws and they are sufficiently different that a Phillips driver can slip and eventually strip the screwhead.
The best brand of JIS driver is Vessel and they are widely available on Amazon for around $20-40/set.
Pete
Now, here’s another little trick for finding OEM Yamaha parts: just enter the entire Yamaha part number into your google search window. You may be amazed at how many of just what you need, comes up at a reasonable price.
Finding those Yamaha part number is really important information.
Just one more tip (for now) - get yourself a set of JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) screwdrivers. What looks like Phillips screws on your bike - are NOT Phillips. They are all JIS screws and they are sufficiently different that a Phillips driver can slip and eventually strip the screwhead.
The best brand of JIS driver is Vessel and they are widely available on Amazon for around $20-40/set.
Pete
john69
XS650 Enthusiast
So today I got the carbs, fuel filter and replacement brushes installed. I was very excited to see if my bike would actually run. I set the petcock to prime pulled out the choke and hit the starter. It fired right up but the idle was 4000 rpm, I assume a bit high. When I depressed the choke lever the engine died. I repeated this process two more times with the same result.
Any thoughts or idea's?
I did verify the throttle cable is functioning correctly.
Any thoughts or idea's?
I did verify the throttle cable is functioning correctly.
With the engine cold, choke on, try setting the idle to about 2000-2500. Let it warm up till it starts blubberin' and stumbling. Then turn the choke off and see if it'll keep running.
Yes, a 4K idle is very high. It should be 1200 on a warmed up engine. It will be less on a cold engine and it may not even want to idle at all when cold. This is all with the choke off. Choke on idle speed will be higher, but I think 4K is even too high for that.
john69
XS650 Enthusiast
Is the throttle cable adjusted too tight? Preventing the butterfly's from closing?
john69
XS650 Enthusiast
Well, if the butterfly's are closing all the way, I'd suspect air leaks. Either at the butterfly seals or the carb boots.
john69
XS650 Enthusiast
Yes, a little oil will dribble out, but not all of the oil. That filter is above the oil level in the engine. What comes out will be just what happens to be in the filter cavity. To lessen the dribble, have the bike on the sidestand when you take the cover off.
I agree with all of the above - AND - there is one other thing you might wish to check (and this may be it, given what you said about the throttle cable being a bit loose).
The space under the fuel tank is very tight and the routing of the throttle and clutch cables is crucial to the correct function of the bike. If the throttle cable is even a little bit restricted in its movements, the engine can race (especially at idle) - it only takes the tiniest throttle opening to rev the engine up.
I suggest you take the tank off and try running the engine. The fuel in the float bowls will allow it to run for several minutes. See if it races at idle - particularly if you turn the handlebars ar turned lock to lock. If it does NOT - then you’ve found at least one problem: your routing under the fuel tank is incorrect.
I had that issue one time and nearly rear-ended a city bus.
The space under the fuel tank is very tight and the routing of the throttle and clutch cables is crucial to the correct function of the bike. If the throttle cable is even a little bit restricted in its movements, the engine can race (especially at idle) - it only takes the tiniest throttle opening to rev the engine up.
I suggest you take the tank off and try running the engine. The fuel in the float bowls will allow it to run for several minutes. See if it races at idle - particularly if you turn the handlebars ar turned lock to lock. If it does NOT - then you’ve found at least one problem: your routing under the fuel tank is incorrect.
I had that issue one time and nearly rear-ended a city bus.
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john69
XS650 Enthusiast
Another question:Bike still will not run without choke on. Is it critical to have the air cleaners installed? I know they will reduce air flow but on my other bikes I can start and run them without the filters during testing.
Yes, it should run without the air filters and with the choke off, maybe not perfectly, but it should run. Sounds like your idle circuit may be plugged or partially plugged. The choke adds extra fuel to richen up the mix for cold starting and running. Sounds like that's all you're getting and running off of.
Yeah - perhaps taking the carbs off and giving them a really thorough cleaning would be worthwhile.
Pete
Pete
