Lithium Batteries w/ stock charging system?

[T6h6o6r]

Just wondering if the stock charging system on my '80 special is compatible with a lithium battery or if its liable to start a fire or explode or something? Couldn't really find anything just using Google and I want to be pretty certain before I go and drop some cash on a new battery and it ends up burning my bike to the ground lol.... Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[halfmile]

I just went through the same situation. The Lithium battery is supposed to have a regulator/rectifier that is compatible with Lithium battery. They have a set charge rate and are the MOSFET type. I think RMStator makes one for the XS650.

 

[jpdevol]

I think the RMStator Li compatible MOSFET are universal, you'll have to wire it correctly. Rick's Motorsports offer a plug-n-play Reg/Rec for Li with a set max output of 14V - I don't think it's MOSFET type. https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Rectifier-Regulator-Lithium-Compatible-14_408 Rick's is not better than RMS, but I do run one.

Having said all that, Antigravity and Shorai batteries are LiFePo and not susceptible to runaway fires as std Li. They do not like 14.5+ volts however - as I understand it.

 

[T6h6o6r]

So the RMStator/Ricks Motorsports R/R would be compatible with a LiFePo like the ones you mentioned? And that's all, just swap out the R/R for one that's Lithium compatible and that's it, nothing else needs to be done?

 

[T6h6o6r]

Just making sure I understand everything 100%

 

[jpdevol]

Yep, the goal is just to reduce the amount of max charge voltage.

 

[JJames]

Good stuff.

 

[mick71b]

What are the advantages of a lithium battery besides light weight?

 

[Adamc]

What are the advantages of a lithium battery besides light weight?

Small size in comparison to regular gel or acid batteries.

 

[ckahleer]

I just went through the same situation. The Lithium battery is supposed to have a regulator/rectifier that is compatible with Lithium battery. They have a set charge rate and are the MOSFET type. I think RMStator makes one for the XS650.

I don't recall the brand, but there is a lithium battery that has built in electronics that protect the battery from overcharging and claim they are compatible with old school charging systems.

 

[jpdevol]

I don't recall the brand, but there is a lithium battery that has built in electronics that protect the battery from overcharging and claim they are compatible with old school charging systems.

Not sure about that:

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/restart-oem/at12-bs-rs/

https://shoraipower.com/faq

 

[Wingedwheel]

Unless it’s a custom mount why would you bother? I mean what are you gonna do with the extra space in the battery box, pack a sandwich? Lol

 

[jpdevol]

One other difference is the discharge while in storage is significantly less. The value of that depends on your individual use needs.

 

[2XSive]

I have the Shorai battery in my bobber...only battery that would fit. I've also been running the stock reg/rec and haven't had any issues. Shorai batteries can handle up to 15.2v charging and per their website: "Your vehicle charging system should be working within standard spec (generally that means charging at 13.6-14.4 volts when running)" which means our stock reg/rec is probably fine. That said, I'll be upgrading the reg/rec to accomodate lower voltage charging.

 

[jpdevol]

I guess this is relevant - and timely - here; after a 150mi ride on 8/27, I noticed something strange looking on my bike: the battery came apart. Shorai LFX14A2-BS12 about 16 months and 1000mi installed. In it's defense it's obviously not a stock install and I don't yet know what to make of the occurrence - just removed it today. It lives in a custom bracket mounted to the frame and just above the swingarm pivot. As best I can tell, it has plenty of clearance, didn't contact the swingarm and the cables have plenty of free-play.

The good news is; it didn't fail electrically and still functions. It also is well constructed inside and the case is just a case, the actual battery is inside and the wiring appears good.

It is still getting replaced....

 

[Grimly]

I'd hazard a guess at the case being ultrasonically welded (not very well) and it didn't like the vibes. Might be ok with a more forgiving foam pad under it.

 

[grizld1]

Yup. In my experience, batteries of any type like lots of damping, and have their ways of showing displeasure when they don't get it. I recall one rally where a young fella showed up on a sort of soft tail bobber and his battery faded out. We stopped and jumped his battery every 50 miles or so and finally finished the run. He had hard mounted the battery. Rotor, stator, regulator all tested good. The battery got shaken and vibed till plates started to separate.

 

[2XSive]

Same battery I have, JP. Didn't that battery come shipped with various sizes of dense foam to be used for vibration dampening? Maybe that battery is still under warranty?

 

[jpdevol]

I'd hazard a guess at the case being ultrasonically welded (not very well) and it didn't like the vibes. Might be ok with a more forgiving foam pad under it.

Yup. In my experience, batteries of any type like lots of damping, and have their ways of showing displeasure when they don't get it. I recall one rally where a young fella showed up on a sort of soft tail bobber and his battery faded out. We stopped and jumped his battery every 50 miles or so and finally finished the run. He had hard mounted the battery. Rotor, stator, regulator all tested good. The battery got shaken and vibed till plates started to separate.

Same battery I have, JP. Didn't that battery come shipped with various sizes of dense foam to be used for vibration dampening? Maybe that battery is still under warranty?

I suspect you all are correct; it fit so well and secure in its cage that I omitted the foam. Next one will have the foam under the bottom and some strips along the sides. Learned the hard way, fortunately no collateral damage....

 

[gggGary]

Lithium battery cells that are electrically abused (or not) like to swell up.
A common failure. Can't tell if JP's swelled or not.
@grizld1 's point a good one, backyard engineers often fail to heed the lesson of Yamaha's extensive efforts to isolate critical electronics from (cough) repetitive back and forth motion, cuz well XS650's don't vibrate. Why Yamaha tended to bolt as much as it could to the rubber mounted battery box using battery mass as a damper.
My
The up and down oscillation at the front of the motor lump tends to pivot on a lever arm of the heavy stationary transmission. Result is like a teeter totter, points aft of the tranmission get shaken like a rat by a terrier. the further aft you go the greater the amplitude. Why (even with) all the rubber mounts, tail lights, license plates tend to crack and break.
Some enterprising fellow should cast fresh silicone rubber battery box mounts, those old rock hard rubber pads now do little of their intended job.... ;^)