Looser ride with lower rear shocks

apt3customs

apt3customs

XS650 Enthusiast
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Hey just wondering if anyone who put lower shocks on their bike noticed a significant change in ride. I just picked up a pair of harley shocks pre-modded for an xs650, they cut about ~1-1.5 inches of the rear ride height, they are also quite a bit stiffer compression-wise. Which is good as I'm pretty short @ 5-8" and am tippy-toed at lights, now i can stop and have a solid foot plant. Plus I think I like it stiffer as I do a lot of 2 up riding with my old lady on the back. Just not the wobblies on cornering.

The thing I notice different when cornering at low and high speed it just feels a little loose, not as tight as it was before. Kinda hard to explain the feeling as if it just wants to track differently.

One possible thing I was thinking was to lower the front forks by the same amount, that by lowering the rear I brought the balance of the bike out of whack a bit. It's still ridable and I might just need to get used to it still, and I definitely like being able to reach the ground better at stops. What are some opinions out there, when it comes to bike suspension geometry that's whole new territory for me.

Thanks!
 
i wouldn't necessarily jump into lowering your bike like i did. there is plenty of good articles im finding regarding how to do it the right way on some google searches. the basic geometry of the bike plays a HUGE role in how it handles im finding out. a 1'' change can translate to 3-4'' of travel at the rear axle depending on spring strength, mounting locations, and overall shock length. right now im at the wobbly end of the ride spectrum and trying to work my way towards a tighter ride :)
 
Yep, lowering the ass end will change the geometry and thus the handling. You can adjust your ridng and learn whatever limitations that you'll incur, not sure about the loose feel but you will notice the difference in the cornering. You can lower the front but you're limited by the bars unless you get the risers or have the tubes trimmed.
Trimming the seat height is a way to get your feet flatter on the ground too.
 
When you lowered the back end the front forks gained rake. This makes the steering harder/less quick. I, and many others who celebrate good cornering, raised the rear with longer shocks to decrease the rake for quicker steering.

Lowering the back an inch did allot of change and dropping the forks a like amount will bring back some of the quicker steering you desire. WARNING: be aware that droping the fork tubes in the clamps may have the bottom of the triple hitting the top of the fender at full compression. Test how much clearance you have by pulling the top caps off the forks and compressing them fully. You can also change the fork oil at the same time. Do the 6" from the top level trick to stiffen the forks a bit.

Tom
 
At 5'6" I lower my bikes 1" front and rear. At the front I use Hugh's Handbuilt spacers
http://hughshandbuilt.com/shop/xs650-fork-lowering-kit-1-drop/ At the rear I like Hagon Custom shocks set up for my 130# weight and 11" eye to eye. Handling is very good in my opinion. Yes, I've given up some ground clearance in the twisties but that's ok by me.

Ufda, didn't notice how stale this thread is.

roy
 
Not just lowering but some random Harley shock with the spring cut down might make the rear so stiff as to cause the tire to skip/hop on pavement irregularities. Part of why hardtails run low rear tire pressure. Many Harley/rider :wink2: combos weigh twice that of the typical XS650 set up.
 
For anyone contemplating frame, fork or shock modifications, I would strongly recommend to read a book or two on the subject, before the cutting, swapping, slamming, modding and general mayhem commences

This is a good starting point: http://www.tonyfoale.com/

I also found a lot of good info here: http://urkfpjvu.eu/language-literature/wilbers-suspension-manual-7804.html

Some suspension manufacturers or suppliers, like Ohlins and Race Tech have some useful info on their website.

So if you want the best handling or comfort, or a good compromise between those two, it takes a bit of effort to understand what is required. Cutting a spring makes it shorter, but at the same time increases the spring rate, while adding pre-load does not, and so on.

In the specific case of the XS650, a stock bike already has a rear weight bias. Shorter shocks and/or longer forks will only make this worse, as will handlebars with more pullback. Ideally, it would be better going the other way, keeping stock shock length and lowering the fork (internally) using spacers or longer top-out springs. Also, shorter shocks often end up having less travel, so they will need stiffer springs or more compression damping to avoid bottoming out, which is not necessarily a good thing.
A slightly longer swing arm would improve weight distribution. With the stock swing arm, using a chain length/ sprocket size combination that puts the rear wheel in the "aft half" of the chain adjustment range will help too.

Any slack/play or binding in steering head bearings or swing arm bushings/bearings will ruin the handling of any bike, so unless you have checked this, now is a good time to do that.

"Squirrelly" handling may also be related to the tires. Tire size, profile and pressure will have a major influence on stability and handling

Finally, it may be that you have had one or more unnoticed issues (like those described above, or other) that became more noticeable with shorter shocks.
 
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I don't understand this business of lowering the suspension because a stock XS650 is too tall. I'm 5'6" with 29" inseam, and can flat foot my XS650 with 3/4" lift in the rear without trouble; and it's not the tallest bike I've owned in 51 years of riding. If you're concerned about handling, learn before you modify.

I have a suggestion for anyone taller than 5'4" who feels that a stock XS650 is too tall, and I don't mean it as an insult. You'd be doing yourself a big service by taking the MSF beginning rider course and improving your sense of control.
 
Griz, I love ya', but sometimes I wonder. We are the same height and the same inseam. I've taken an advanced rider course every other year since they've been offered. Lots of good information and it's always smart to sharpen your skills, particularly as we age. But those courses haven't made me any taller or the bikes any lower. When I put a foot down I want it down.

roy
 
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IMAG3160.jpg


Griz was two up all day, his wife on the back.

18" front wheel tire forks dropped about 3/4"
 
Ixnay, Gary; the forks are raised only 1/2" in the trees; the 100-90/18 front tire might be 1/4" shorter than a stock 19" when aspect ratio is figured in. 2m, consider the math. Boot soles are ~1" (the one on the right foot is a little thicker, thanks to a crash 18 years back). Laden sag on my scoot is set at 25 mm.; it's going to be much more than that on a stock suspension that requires looser springing due to lack of responsive damping. Heck, I had no trouble with a taller sitting Suzuki SV650.

Gary shot the pic at last year's Yamaha 650 Society Ozarks Rally, based out of the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, AR. We're doing it again this year, April 28-30, and I hope some of you can join us--great rides and some great people. Gary, I hope you'll be making the trip south again!

Roy, all I can say is, each to his own. You're clearly skilled and experienced, you know what makes you happy, and at the end of the day, that's what counts.
 
Not sure the bikes history. But check your swingarm bushings. Maybe switching to newer shocks which might be a little tighter (newer) might accentuate worn out swingarm bushings. Also lowering the rear will put more weight on the back of the bike which could also accentuate worn out bushings. You may have done these already, but to check just grab the rear wheel and see if there is any side to side play.

Just a thought as I read this. All other geometry discussions are totally valid too... just putting my .02 in.
 
running 10 1/2 inch rebel shocks without lowering front but did use new bronze swing arm bushes and new steering head bearings and it goes around corners like on rails with no sense of any looseness so would be looking at them especially the swingarm bush ,does handle a bit different with the lower shocks so this might be what your noticing as well as what Weston has said
 
Can't say for certain either bike but IIRC the ones on mine are emgo not a bad mirror, can't claim they are vibration free on an XS. Riding in a group all weekend I could count how many bikes were behind me. but couldn't tell who was was riding them.

prolly these http://www.jpcycles.com/product/ZZ76110
 

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