Miesha: Build thread.

I love the idea of the oil on the gasket and I did it.

In other news... WTF! I set the torque wrench for 7 ft lbs and sump bolt # 1 clicked while # 2 snapped off at the head. I thought it felt like it was too far but oblivious me just kept cranking thinking "ahh the first one clicked".

Does anyone have a few extra ones they feel like parting with?
 
As long as you're careful and use a torque wrench every time, you can use any bolt for a replacement. I switched mine out for stainless many years back. The bolt that broke may have been over stressed in the past and just finally gave out, but it could be the accuracy (or lack there of) of your torque wrench. You might try using a lower setting, like 6. Torque wrenches are most accurate operating in the middle part of their range and can be off a bit near the top and bottom of it. If the wrench you're using is near it's minimum setting to obtain that 7 ft/lbs, that could be the problem. The small in/lb wrenches I use span from 10 or 15 up to 150 or 200 in/lbs. The 75 to 80 setting I use for M6 fasteners falls near the middle of their range.
 
Sorry - but it isn't quite correct to say that any fastener can be re-used.

There is a class of fasteners called torque-to-yield bolts which are used pretty commonly on modern engine cylinder heads - and these are basically not re-usable because their normal installation causes them to stretch or yield permanently. The first time I ran into these was on an old '84 Ford Escort that I re-built for a friend back in the late 80's. The manual stated that you had to use brand new head bolts when rebuilding the engine or changing the head gasket.

Certainly, nothing on an XS650 is torque-to-yield - so nothing to worry about on our nice old bikes.

Pete
 
Some notes:
- Paint stripper works REALLY well for removing old gaskets. Thanks to all that recommended it. I can add that even if you have the organic non-toxic G-Rated stuff sitting around, it will work really well also!
- The sump bolts do snap if you over torque them. I think my idiot self used too large of a torque wrench and that's what did it.
- I have 4 "regular" bolts in there now as well as 2 of the OEM ones. The other OEM ones looked beat up and I did not feel comfortable re-using most of htem. I added lock washers to all of them. I oiled up the gasket as recommended and assembled it with a small regular ratchet and tightened them very gently.
- I added a quart of oil and after 24 hrs there was a small drip. I gave it just another maybe 1/10 of a turn on the end where it was leaking and in the almost 24 hrs since then, it looks dry.
It's amazing how much you really do not need to torque these down in order to seal things up. I don't have a 1/4" drive torque wrench, so I'm trying to scrounge one up to verify torque but at least the bike is all together and filled with clean oil / filters / gaskets and holding tight.
 
I also got my rear fender back. Around 4.5" was chopped out and the original bottom was welded back on.

Top was chopped to accommodate the Counterbalance Cycles seat. Sheet metal was shaped, cut and welded to the front and will bolt to the cross brace I had welded in for mounting the seat to.

A forum member did this for me and then decided not to charge me after he wasn't happy with his welds. Stuff like this just restores your faith in humanity doesn't it ... most people are just looking out for themselves and every once in a while you come across good honest people and it's just awesome.
 

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Hey Pete - that looks pretty good to me! Afterall, you're building a motorcycle, not a grand piano - right?

Anyhow, I like it - and would be happy to have work like that done on my cafe project!

Pete
 
CoconutPete said:
Some notes:
- Paint stripper works REALLY well for removing old gaskets. Thanks to all that recommended it. I can add that even if you have the organic non-toxic G-Rated stuff sitting around, it will work really well also!
- The sump bolts do snap if you over torque them. I think my idiot self used too large of a torque wrench and that's what did it.
- I have 4 "regular" bolts in there now as well as 2 of the OEM ones. The other OEM ones looked beat up and I did not feel comfortable re-using most of htem. I added lock washers to all of them. I oiled up the gasket as recommended and assembled it with a small regular ratchet and tightened them very gently.
- I added a quart of oil and after 24 hrs there was a small drip. I gave it just another maybe 1/10 of a turn on the end where it was leaking and in the almost 24 hrs since then, it looks dry.
It's amazing how much you really do not need to torque these down in order to seal things up. I don't have a 1/4" drive torque wrench, so I'm trying to scrounge one up to verify torque but at least the bike is all together and filled with clean oil / filters / gaskets and holding tight.
Click to expand...
If you own an XS650 for very long, a 1/4" drive torque wrench, that measures in inch/lbs is a very worthwhile tool. It took me a while to wake up and buy one (5twins kept telling me I needed one, and he's right) , but its a favorite tool for me now.
 
retiredgentleman said:
If you own an XS650 for very long, a 1/4" drive torque wrench, that measures in inch/lbs is a very worthwhile tool. It took me a while to wake up and buy one (5twins kept telling me I needed one, and he's right) , but its a favorite tool for me now.
Click to expand...

Is it easier to apply really low threshold torque to bolts with it? I have a larger one and it seemed so awkward to torque the sump plate bolts with it. Do the 1/4" drive ones generally have a shorter handle?
 
Yes, easier a 1/4" torque wrench is smaller so much easier to handle in that application. Also torque wrenches aren't as accurate at the extreme lower or upper end of their range. See 5twins post #42 above. 7ft lbs is hard to dial in and trust on a ft lbs torque wrench but equates to 84 in lbs which would be in the 'trustable' range on an in lbs torque wrench.

Edit: However, do follow 5twins recommendations for torque settings for these bolts in his post.
 
Last edited:
CoconutPete said:
. Sheet metal was shaped, cut and welded to the front and will bolt to the cross brace I had welded in for mounting the seat to.
Click to expand...

I think that is going to look great. Are you going to re-chrome it or...? Let's see some pics of it on the bike.
 
robinc said:
Yes, easier a 1/4" torque wrench is smaller so much easier to handle in that application. Also torque wrenches aren't as accurate at the extreme lower or upper end of their range. See 5twins post #42 above. 7ft lbs is hard to dial in and trust on a ft lbs torque wrench but equates to 84 in lbs which would be in the 'trustable' range on an in lbs torque wrench.

Edit: However, do follow 5twins recommendations for torque settings for these bolts in his post.
Click to expand...

TOTALLY concur with Robin on this. Having a decent set of torque wrenches is really important for working on motorcycles - particularly because they have a fair bit of aluminium in the engines and the parts tend to be small and potentially fragile - so it is easy to over-torque things and bust them (don't ask me how I know :sick:).

I would suggest that having a 1/4" drive and a 3/8" drive wrench should do the job pretty well. There aren't many fasteners on a motorcycle which would go above the range of a good quality 3/8" drive wrench, but there are a lot that require torquing at values well below where a 3/8" drive unit is really accurate - and THAT is where you need the little one.

BTW - I gave a talk on threaded fasteners at our local chapter of the Can. Vintage MC Group (www.cvmg.ca) last night and got a lot of great questions. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post a .pdf of the slides here. It is about 3.4 MB - does that exceed the limit?

Cheers,

Pete
 
Fenders will be black. Probably gloss. I think I mentioned this in the beginning of this thread, but I'm slowly dialing in this bike to where it's exactly my style and then it'll be 100% torn down and painted etc. For the time being it's just gonna get rattle canned. I need to tackle the front one after this - it's only plasti-dipped.
 
The small in/lb torque wrench you get doesn't necessarily need to be 1/4" drive, it can be 3/8". Like me, you probably have more sockets and fittings in the 3/8" size, particularly metric Allen sockets. This is the other area my little torque wrench gets frequent use in - all the little M6 Allens that hold the side covers on. But, I recently solved my 1/4" drive metric Allen problem with a set of these .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142181923011?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

It's a nice little set and so cheap, I bought 2, lol.
 
...further proof of Pete's Third Rule which states that:

"He who dies with the most tools...wins"

You can never have too many tools and at the current labour rates charged by shops, you more than pay for nearly ANY tool, if you use it just once or twice.
 
Well... got sick so not much has happened.

I did sneak out into the garage and got a couple of coats of black on the rear fender, so I may actually throw that on before the weekend.

I checked off a bunch of boxes, so as soon as I check tire pressure, adjust the chain and clutch I am ready for a ride or two!

I did also give into temptation and order a set of those hex bits from eBay!
 

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