Mild tapping on intial start up???

[RatyXS]

I might just be being anal, but I am getting a light tapping noise on initial start up, that wasn't there the other day when I fired this thing up for the first time, the P/O never had it running for a period of time. I am running pretty light oil currently, but it was what they had at the store when I needed it in a pinch to fire it up ( will change to heaver oil this week). I just went over the valves again, they were about right where they need to be, the timing chain is set correctly. It goes away after a about 40 seconds. I do realize this is a 30+ year old machine so it isn't going to be the most quiet. Again I am prob being to picky, as my quad has the same tap, that is always there. Thoughts ??

Thanks

 

[usfs68]

When you change the oil look for little pieces of black Plastic. For me the culprit was the cam chain guide starting to delam.

 

[angus67]

these are pretty noisy engines, but noises shouldn't come and go like that.
What weight oil are you using? I run 15-40 diesel oil. (Please don't start a thread on wich oil is better.)
Are you adjusting your cam chain before checking your valves? If you adjust your cam chain after your valves, it will change the valve settings. What are you setting your valves at? I have mine at .004" for intake, and .006" for exhaust. That is in inches.
One test to do to make sure your cam chain is adjusted right, is to start the motor, and while running, slacken the cam chain until you hear a jingling sound, kind of like car keys, then tighten back up until the jingle goes away.
Another thought, if you have a later cam chain adjuster, (mines a 1980). If the copper washer isn't between the spring and adjuster face, this makes noise too, but is more consistant. and copper washer will do, aslong as it just fits on the push rod for the adj, and dosnt wallow round. and of course, the o.d. of said washer allows the adj to go back in the motor. You can take the whole adjuster out of the motor with out to much hassle.

 

[RatyXS]

I am running 5-30 right now, again it is what they had. I run rotella 10-30 in my quad,and my boats/bikes and truck. Na, wont start a thread like that, as I know what should be going in. I just thought that could be a contributing factor to the noise. I have valves set at .003(in) -.006(Ex). Cam tensioner is set with the button about flush, then checked valves. Have had oil out of it one time to fix a issue the previous owner had while reinstalling the clutch, nothing abnormal was in the oil. I actually have to put a new side cover gasket on it, so I will be doing the oil change in a few days. Again the noise goes away.. Hmmm

Thanks

 

[RatyXS]

Here is a quick vid from a few mins ago.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

It doesn't sound too bad in your video. But, being anal, you could remove and inspect the tappet adjuster tips, old ones are known to deform and crack. Here's an extreme thread:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28536

 

[RatyXS]

^^^ Thanks for the link, I will read into it.. Sorry about the vid, I started it with the phone in the wrong position. Like I said it just started and goes away after about a min. I used a screw driver as a scope, everything in the bottom end sounded normal to me, the noise is most def from the top end.

 

[xjwmx]

I am getting a light tapping noise on initial start up, that wasn't there the other day

There is some tapping until the oil makes it up to the valves, especially when the oil is hot and think. Maybe you just didn't notice it the other day?

 

[RatyXS]

^^^ yes was also thinking this. After the bike has been ran for some time I believe the oil may be broke down some, thinned out a touch. Changing oil latter today, so hopefully it stops the issue.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Might consider checking the oil pump...

 

[5twins]

Mine used to do that. This is what I found during the top end tear down .....

I figure the loose rubber strip was slapping against the aluminum base and making the racket until oil splashed up and quieted things down.

 

[xjwmx]

I just now listened to the video for the first time. I hear a tap that goes away before :12 that is random and isn't the valves because I can hear your valves too. I don't think it's your valves anymore. Mine makes valve noise until oil makes it up there, but with yours I hear the noise that I think you're talking about in addition to your valves.

 

[RatyXS]

Mine stops withen less then a min. But it does it every time I start it up cold. It sounds for sure like a loose valve but isn't. I changed oil today with new rotella 15-40, it didn't stop the issue. I cleaned oil filter and there was ZERO parts in it. Also the magnets on the bottom showed nothing at all out of the ordinary. I would think if the tensioner was going bad or coming apart that there would be parts of it in the oil ??

 

[RatyXS]

Here is what a strainer looked like after draining oil through it. Alot of this is paint, parts of gasket. This is from the side cover as well as the case( both big plugs pulled) Never seen the oil from one of these but this looks like nothing to be worried about by a stretch. No metal on the magnets or anything, I just about got out the same 2.1 q's I put in back out. I think this just may be the nature of this beast. Then again my buddies with a shit ton of miles that he beats on every day, has never had a rebuild doesn't have the tap at initial start, we know hos valves are out. I ripped the hell out of this tonight and every thing seemed just fine.

 

[XSLeo]

5w30 is a light car oil with additives to make it even slipperier These additives can effect the clutch. they keep it from gripping. If your lucky and didn't run the bike much then your clutch plate won't be to contaminated and the fresh oil will fix it. Any oil that has a JASO MA rating is ok to use. This means it was tested and approved for wet clutches.
Also comparing a 35 year old bike to a more modern machine is a bit foolish. The new machines are a much more technologically advanced. All these changes have greatly changed the oil requirements.
Leo

 

[ontherocks]

Mine makes that exact noise on a cold startup. Goes away within less than a minute. I usually wait another two minutes after the tapping goes away to let her warm up fully before taking off. I haven't really worried about it, and am interested in what you find.

 

[RatyXS]

5w30 is a light car oil with additives to make it even slipperier These additives can effect the clutch. they keep it from gripping. If your lucky and didn't run the bike much then your clutch plate won't be to contaminated and the fresh oil will fix it. Any oil that has a JASO MA rating is ok to use. This means it was tested and approved for wet clutches.
Also comparing a 35 year old bike to a more modern machine is a bit foolish. The new machines are a much more technologically advanced. All these changes have greatly changed the oil requirements.
Leo

I agree 100%. As I said I did this only because I was in a pinch and wanted to fire this bad boy up. Only was in the bike for about a hour run time tops. I do not believe it had any friction modifiers in it, so I believe the clutch is fine, as it is a brand new one to start.




Also I did notice the tiny hair like stuff on the filter when I cleaned it but again no big particles of metal or plastic.

 

[angus67]

yeah, whats up with fine hair-like threads? mine does it too.
I run my oil thru a paint strainer also. for some reason, there is always a few gnats in there.

 

[RatyXS]

Not sure what it could be, never seen anything like it, but these 650's are new to me. Only thing i can think of is maybe it is parts of the cam chain guides/adjuster that once hot rub away, mix with the oil to cause the hair like stuff. Havn't seen any in the oil ran through a strainer yet but was on the filter in the case cover.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

yeah, whats up with fine hair-like threads? mine does it too.
I run my oil thru a paint strainer also. for some reason, there is always a few gnats in there.

Good observation angus! Thinking crank breather. Two cyls, moving up together, 1300 cc minimum, sucking up thru crank ventillation system, bugs, lint on floor, ...etc. Of course that assumes unfiltered breather tubes sticking out the bottom. Probably not sucking in that much at rpm, but during low-rpm crank and shutdown, I can see stuff pulled up in there.

Never really thought of this before, and I've gotten the mysterious lint/fibres as well...