New guy looking for help!

[650Skull]

Videos have there place but for me a Tutorial or well constructed thread with pics is far better.

Here is a link to a thread on the clutch and its correct assembly and the alined index hole, #13.This is very important

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28286

 

[traversable]

This thread, post #7 shows the correct assembly of the clutch:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143

It shows the thickness of the various washers.

Thanks @Retiredgentleman.. Ya, I saw that thread and I believe it's the order that I'm currently set up with. But still seams to binds when I tighten things down. I did notice that the needle bearing was replaced with a MIKES aftermarket. But I don't think that would make a dif... Hmmm..?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Here's peanut's XS650F clutch parts pic. Numbers indicate reassembly order, with thicknesses indicated:

Edit: The clutch basket, needle bearing and thin washer (#4, #5 and #6) ride on the shaft bushing (#3).
They are sandwiched between thick washers #2 and #7.
The clutch basket needs to spin freely within this sandwiched zone, with at least 0.002" clearance.

 

[traversable]

Thanks guys,

Haven't been back down to my bike since yesterday afternoon. But I'm just about ready to go hit it again. As of now .. I went thru and made sure my clutch parts were all in order and correct. As shown in Peanut's pic or 5twin's examples http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=267024&postcount=49

I feel everything's inline... except ..now that I think about it I think my first washers OD was the same as my second thin washer. But same thickness. I'll have to go check.. but I think it fit nicely within/up next to the case bearing. anyways I don't feel it would make things bind up the way it does.

The only thing that I can think of that would do that would be 1 of 3 things being to thick. 1.spacer shaft 2. bearing plate or the bearing. ..... I did mic'd Mikes replacement bearing (which was replace at time of rebuild) to the original and it is a little thicker.. could that be..?

TR/\V

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

One thing I haven't seen done on this forum, but we would do in the shop long ago, is the "basket spin test".

The crank's primary drive gear has to be removed to do this.

Assemble the washers, clutch basket, clutch hub. Snug the hub nut. Don't install the plates.

Spin the basket. Check for free spinning. Check clearances to things behind it. Check for trueness and wobble. Check for sloppiness (axial and radial). Check the basket's fingers for bends/runout.

 

[gggGary]

Hey I like that!

pulling the crank primary gear is easy.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey I like that!

pulling the crank primary gear is easy.

Thanx, gggGary! Used to do this on all those other bikes, and my XS1Bs. But, NEVER on any other XS650s. I'm sure it would confirm the issue with that omitted shim washer that 5Twins and inxs posted long ago. And would help prevent the possible assembly mistake of letting one of those shim washers slip down and getting caught on that spacer bushing. And maybe other unnoticed issues.

But, I'm not in the position to perform this on other XS650s. So, have to leave it up to you folks to see if it's a worthwhile procedure, and add appropriate criteria. Basically, if the "basket spin test" passes scrutiny, then the primary gear is reinstalled, and clutch assembly continues...

 

[gggGary]

Gotta change plates on an 82 real soon. I'm using an ippytatoo plate pack so the hub has to come off and it never hurts to check the springs on the back.

 

[traversable]

Hey guys!

Well, Here it is!

It ended up being that first 1mm washer that rides up against the bearing. it indeed had been replaced with another 1mm needle bearing plate washer, which was causing that bearing to lock up.. or the hole clutch to drag or not ride on that bearing.

Dug around in the box of extras and found the correct washer.. replaced it and everything is now working wonderfully !!

Thanks again!

TR/\V

 

[retiredgentleman]

Hey guys!

Well, Here it is!

It ended up being that first 1mm washer that rides up against the bearing. it indeed had been replaced with another 1mm needle bearing plate washer, which was causing that bearing to lock up.. or the hole clutch to drag or not ride on that bearing.

Dug around in the box of extras and found the correct washer.. replaced it and everything is now working wonderfully !!

Thanks again!

TR/\V

Congrats on finding the problem.

Yes, that's why all PO's are hated on this site, due to their desire to use wrong parts or leave out correct parts. No punishment is too severe for those guys. Perhaps we can bring back the cat-o-nine public flogging.

My PO thought it would be good to leave out the number 1 washer that goes next to the transmission bearing. The results can be seen in my picture.

 

[ippytattoo]

Good deal, another mystery solved and put to rest!!!

 

[sherwin]

retiredgentleman,

I'm the previous owner of the bike Travis is having trouble with. You are 100% correct in your implication that I had a desire to use the wrong part when rebuilding that motor. I fully intended to spend a lot of time and money to get the whole bike rebuilt and ready to go only to have it not run. I was looking forward to spending an equal amount of time and money trying to find out which of the many wrong parts I intentionally installed would be causing the problem. I realize you've likely never made a mistake, I will turn myself over to you for the appropriate punishment. Please let me know where and when I need to show up for the public flogging.

Travis,

I'm glad you got the problem figured out, sorry for the mistake I made while assembling the clutch, I hope that's the only mistake I made. I can only take so many floggings, ha !

 

[angus67]

someday, we will all be po's. so act accordingly. We got these bike from some one.
I got my 71 because a friend had a financial situ that popped up, and I am finding small po errors around the bike. Do I blame him? no. I bought it as is. And I assume you guys did too.

 

[retiredgentleman]

retiredgentleman,

I'm the previous owner of the bike Travis is having trouble with. You are 100% correct in your implication that I had a desire to use the wrong part when rebuilding that motor. I fully intended to spend a lot of time and money to get the whole bike rebuilt and ready to go only to have it not run. I was looking forward to spending an equal amount of time and money trying to find out which of the many wrong parts I intentionally installed would be causing the problem. I realize you've likely never made a mistake, I will turn myself over to you for the appropriate punishment. Please let me know where and when I need to show up for the public flogging.

Travis,

I'm glad you got the problem figured out, sorry for the mistake I made while assembling the clutch, I hope that's the only mistake I made. I can only take so many floggings, ha !

sherwin.....................did you see my little smilely face at the end of the sentence? It was my attempt to add some humour to the thread. Through the years, whenever a thread pops up where the PO has used wrong parts or left out parts, I usually heap scorn upon the PO, and its all meant in good fun.

I know that you did not intend to use the wrong part, and besides that, I don't think public flogging is allowed anymore

 

[traversable]

So... I was hoping this thread & problem had been resolved (done & gone)... But unfortunately after getting my engine back in my bike.. and proceeding to check for spark after installing my new HHB PMA & Pamco ignition I was still feeling a slight drag when trying to turn over my engine over.. Something still wasn't quite right.. So, I again removed my clutch cover to find that the clutch was dragging just a tad bit on the cover..(a few aluminum shavings laying in the bottom) similar to a post/picture 5twins posted in the clutch thread. First of.. I pretty sure I have my clutch put together right.. with no extra or missing washers.. What have I/am I missing..?!!

I know that new clutch plates were bought at the time of rebuild.. 7 plates.. (my engine is a 79)

I also have an extra clutch cover that came with the bike. are they unchangeable? the spare one I have here has a steal sleeve in the kickstarter hole so my guess is that it's from a new model?

I've included a couple pictures.. (a couple progress photos)

Is the inner part of the clutch hub suppose to be out that far? Should I only be running 6 plates? Why do my knees & back hurt?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yeah, your clutch plates are sticking out too far, last plate extends beyond basket fingers.

Coupla things to check:

Behind the clutch hub (boss), a washer may have slipped down off the spacer sleeve and got trapped on the sleeve edge.

Early 70-73 clutch steel discs were 1.6mm thick. Later steels are 1.4mm thick. For a 7-friction clutch, you must use the thinner steels.

... Why do my knees & back hurt?

Here ya go...

 

[traversable]

Ok, before I go and pull this clutch hub off ((again)) a couple more things. I checked & I am currently using the thinner steal plates.. 7 of them to be exact.. One that goes on first and is held in by a retainer. and of coarse the 7 friction plates.. What's puzzling is that I went and dug through the old parts and I found a bag with the original plates in it.. same size as the (new) ones currently being used.. only there were just 6 friction plates and only 5 steal plates.. ?

 

[XSLeo]

If you are using the hub that has a steel plate held in place with a wire spring then you only use 6 plates.
With the steel plate held in by the wire, start with a fiber plate, steel plate until you use 6 fiber plates the outer plate should be fiber.
Some year clutches use a set of fibers that have two different types of plates. I'm not sure which years but the set of Forodo plates I put in my 75 were set up that way.
If your new set is like mine put the two different plates in the center of the stack. As in fiber, steel, fiber, steel one of the different fiber, steel, the other different fiber, steel fiber, steel, fiber.
Ok found it. The very early clutches used the two different fiber plates 70-73. The ones that had the rubber O-rings between the plates.
Anyway the set I got was set up like it is so it can be used on all years.
Leo

 

[traversable]

If you are using the hub that has a steel plate held in place with a wire spring then you only use 6 plates.
With the steel plate held in by the wire, start with a fiber plate, steel plate until you use 6 fiber plates the outer plate should be fiber.
Some year clutches use a set of fibers that have two different types of plates. I'm not sure which years but the set of Forodo plates I put in my 75 were set up that way.
If your new set is like mine put the two different plates in the center of the stack. As in fiber, steel, fiber, steel one of the different fiber, steel, the other different fiber, steel fiber, steel, fiber.
Ok found it. The very early clutches used the two different fiber plates 70-73. The ones that had the rubber O-rings between the plates.
Anyway the set I got was set up like it is so it can be used on all years.
Leo

Thanks for clearing that up XSLEO.. Even after reading the original clutch thread a second time it still seamed a little unclear to me. I'll go remove the 7th plate a give it a go..

All my friction plates are the same.

A thought I had.. I see that there's a nipple on the inside of the case cover that resides just about in the center of the clutch. ) One would think...( Yamaha would have designed this to stop the clutch basket from over disengaging and the outer edges of the basket from scaring up the case... like what happened in my case and other photos I've seen.. ???? hmmmm

I wonder if there was shrinkage in their mold or it was a mistake they just never got around to fixing..?