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New ROTOR installed, few questions

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by XS650D, May 29, 2019.

  1. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    I just got a warranty replacement from Rick Rotors, tested it on bench and got 5 ohms
    Installed it and started up bike, reved bike to 4000 rpm ,seems to be working as voltage
    raised but only to 14 Volts. The last one I got would show 14.3 .I load tested my battery
    and its good. Could I have damaged the Regulator when the last Rotor crapped out.
    Is there a way to test this.I have the 77 with the vr-115 Reg (Standard Auto Products)
    I tried turning the headlight on and of but no change.Should I do some miles and see if it adjusts somewhat.
     
  2. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    Maybe worth mentioning when I purchased bike 4 or 5 years ago I noticed that there was
    a switch built into the stock handlebar controls that u could use to turn the headlight on and of manually.
    Im pretty sure all the switch gear was new from mikesxs so it may or may not be correct for that year bike in 77.But recall reading it was stock that way also.
    Regardless the light always stays on as soon as you started the bike ,u cant turn it off with switch while engine running unless the engine is turned off. With engine off and the key turned on the headlight switch can be turned on or off.
    Since my Rotor died (original) and then the replacement died I noticed that the light switch now
    works with bike running or not, very strange as I have not messed with any wiring.Any ideas as to why and If that could possible be
    the issue thats frying my Rotors,yes its a stretch but electrical is my weak link!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  3. Bushyeyed1

    Bushyeyed1 XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    Just out of curious what type of a battery are you running? The regulator is easy to check with a multimeter if you believe it’s been damaged. The manual says to disconnect headlight fuse when you test the voltage, but not sure if it will change since you have a switch. Good luck if there is anything on the xs650 that keeps me busy it’s the charging system. I think eventually I will spend $600 and go PMA.
     
  4. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    Bush, its an AGM maintenance free battery.Shows 12.6 Volts sitting after a few days, when I tested it
    starting the bike while cranking it held at 10 Volts,so I dont believe theres any bad cels.I also took it to CDN TIRE
    and they load tested it, said its good.After a 10minute ride the Voltage is now showing between 14.3 and 14.4 volts
    at varied rpm (it varies depending what rpm) its highest at around 2500/3000 rpm strangely . Looks to be working ok.
    See how long this one lasts. Is there a relay or something other than the handlebar switch thats support to turn on the lights
    or is it either wired or not wired direct?
     
  5. Bushyeyed1

    Bushyeyed1 XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I had an AGM battery for about a week that had a bad cell. 14.4 volts sounds like it’s doing what it’s supposed to. A lot of people don’t realize a 12 volt batteries actually hold more then 12 volts and depending on what your battery is the voltage it’s holding determines the charge life. If yours only holds 12.6 volts resting its around 80 % charge life. Also I had one that passed the load test on the machine at the parts store but when I asked them the crank amps it’s was really low. It would drain down to around 5 volts from 12.6 when I cranked it though. So it seems it’s working but next time you’ll be more knowledgeable on the charging system. I have about become an expert on it by now, lol. Also a trickle charger is worth it in the long run.
     

    Attached Files:

    Wulfbyte and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  6. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    WTF! I just went out and started the bike and checked voltage again running and NO CHARGE!!
    Brand new Rotor (replacement) No time rite now to pull apart but im pissed and stumped, it was charging
    perfect last nite after a ride. Theres something weird happening here and I cant figure it out,3 rotors bad
    within approx 200 miles.
     
  7. Bushyeyed1

    Bushyeyed1 XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I have a spare rectifier and regulator that I can’t use on my bike; assuming you have the old 6 pin regulator and mechanical rectifier. If you want to pay shipping and handling then it’s yours. Just PM me your address. There is a guide in the tech section on the forum. I would follow it before replacing another rotor. Especially if it’s reading 5 ohms. I’m not sure if it is your AGM battery but I had the same issue with one and the only reason I replaced it to a lithium was because I read something about issues with AGM on this forum. Could actually be a bad stator but you can find that out running the continuity checks in the manual.
     
  8. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    17,188
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    688
    I happen to have a '77D Canadian model wiring diagram and it seems to show the later double safety relay (starter and headlight). '77D U.S. models didn't get this. They only had the single starter safety relay. The auto-on headlight relay didn't come along until '78 in the U.S. So yes, if you have that double relay then it would be normal for the headlight to come on with the engine. Since you say it doesn't now, there could be a couple reasons for that. Either the relay stopped working or there is no charging. The headlight/starter safety relay is fed voltage from the alternator on a yellow wire to trip it. No voltage output (charging) and the relays won't get triggered.

    If you get things sorted and wish to eliminate that auto-on headlight feature, it's very simple. Just unplug the blue/black wire coming out of the safety relay. This is the wire that sends the "auto-on" power to the headlight once the relay is tripped, bypassing the function of the handlebar on-off switch. Technically, the relay will still be doing it's thing, it's just that the power signal it's sending out to the headlight won't go through any more .....

    [​IMG]
     
    gggGary likes this.
  9. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    My second Rotor from Ricks Motorsports,broke on the weld tab, glue separated at 1 mile ride!!
    2 bad Rotors in a row few weeks apart.I guess im done with them. There distributor in Quebec was
    great though and credited me on the first one, second one not sure. I think this stuff is made in Taiwan
    not sure , no markings ,actually looked pretty good visually but the bonding glues and soldered connections
    just aren't holding up to the vibes of the xs650 I guess. Original units were well made and sealed, made to last a lifetime!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  10. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    DSCN9871.JPG bThe wire is still attached to the Epoxy/plastic piece but has
    broken away from the weld. It appears that the weld wasn't done properly and it was the plastic epoxy glue that was holding everything together. Just poor workmanship on this unit.mass produced with lil quality control I surmise.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  11. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Jus' sayin'.... :whistle:

    IMG_20190530_170757.jpg
     
    peanut, MaxPete, TwoManyXS1Bs and 5 others like this.
  12. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    PM,ed u Jim.
     
    peanut, MaxPete and Jim like this.
  13. Wulfbyte

    Wulfbyte XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Looks like two different rotors ,one is for points, and the other is for a tci! Can’t use the one for points for a tci,not sure on the other way around! Also have you checked your brushes for wear! If worn down to about 7mm time to change!
     
    Jim and Bushyeyed1 like this.
  14. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    His bike is a 77.... pre TCI. My rotor works for his bike. The aftermarkets all come with the TCI magnet so they'll work for all years.... it's just not needed for his 77D
     
  15. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Junkie Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Thats a bummer for sure. Dont screw around with those dang cheap rotors. Get your money back and point it in Jim's direction!! :laugh2: you will be back in the saddle in no time. JC
     
  16. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    Thx 5T, Great info as usual. My relay probably crapped the bed but I prefer the way it is now as I can
    turn the headlight on and of manually. I figure I dont really need it during the day and it may pull more voltage
    when starting the bike ,then again ,I read that if you convert to electronic ignition/advance which I have that it delays the power from the lights until the bike fires.Maybe someone can confirm that.
    I have read so much info on this site im saturated to the point im just confused now.
    BTW Got Jims Rotor on order, fingers crossed!!
     
  17. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    No, on your 77 the charging system and the ignition system are completely separate from each other. Changing ignition will have no affect on the headlight relay. All the headlight relay looks for is an output from the stator (charging system) to turn the lights on.
     
    Wulfbyte, Mailman and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  18. XS650D

    XS650D XS650 Junkie

    Thx Jim. Ive had so many issues with the Rotor charging or not that im not really 100% on if its a bad relay
    or it just wasn't charging when I checked.I will have a better idea once I get everything going again.
    I miss riding my bike already!!
     
    Wulfbyte likes this.
  19. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    On my TCI 83SK the light wouldn't come on until i stopped cranking with the electric start..........If the bike ran the light was on, if the bike didn't start the light wouldn't come on until i released the start button.......I would have to turn the key off, (kills the light),and on again, (no light) then try to start the bike again...........The only time the bike wouldn't start the first time was if it was cold and the first start for the day..........I never cranked the electric start more than 6 revolutions before stopping, and key off/on again to kill headlight.

    Kick start the light would come on after every kick.........if the bike didn't start first kick, then the key off, (kills the light), on and kick again..........never bothered me, just one of those things that was apart of the XS650 experience.

    Someone would be able to explain the electrical reasons and how relays work or such................ but i don't need to know that to know to kill the headlight, if the bike didn't start with Electric start or kick start, and to know the battery is better off used without the headlight on when trying to start.

    I wouldn't crank on the electric start more than 6 revolutions so the battery wasn't run down. On a cold morning this also leaves enough charge in the battery and lets it build a little surface charge, (leave key off for 20 seconds or so), so the second time has that little bit extra ooomph
     

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