New to here, bikes, and carbs. My bike doesn't start and makes weird noises..

[raven2345]

I recently picked up a '75 XS650B that wasn't running, and has been sitting for over 20 years. I don't have a battery for it, but have been letting it sit on a battery charger/car starter thing while I try and diagnose it.

First question would be, is there any chance the bike would absolutely, positively NOT start while being on the charger?

Second question, most of the time when I turn the key, there is a LOUD buzzing noise coming from the voltage regulator, I believe. Being new to old machines, is there any way I'm able to bypass this at all? I've looked into this kit: http://hughshandbuilt.blogspot.com/p/xs650-permanent-magnet-alternator.html, wondering if that would be able to get rid of the regulator (and yes, I do plan on using the kit for it's main use, doing a condenser, and being kick-start only).

And third, when I first turned the key with the bike on the charger, pretty much every electronic thing had a nice bit of smoke just billow out of it. Any ideas? Hahah..

Thanks in advance for the help, and pictures will be up later.

 

[gggGary]

Hope you haven't smoked anything yet. You have to have a battery in the circuit. The charger is putting out poorly rectified AC not the DC your bike wants and and needs. Your rectifier and voltage regulator are doing their best to get rid of the excessive voltage and bizarre AC they are seeing, they are willing to die trying.

Oops I just saw the smoke remark. I think you just got a very expensive lesson in why not to take short cuts when reviving an old bike.

 

[gggGary]

Although you will ignore this: The SIMPLEST shortest way to do a build is to get the bike running GOOD and reliably completely stock THEN start modding it. (sigh)

 

[pyroman]

Horse to water, eh Gary?

 

[pyroman]

Now that the smoke got out of it, You are screwed. Buy a manual, study it and be prepared to get Your hands dirty.

 

[gggGary]

Yeah the problem is the bike always had ONE problem when it was given up on. You have to be careful to figure out what THAT problem was before you add a bunch of NEW problems. One problem is easy 3 or 4 problems all at once is a tough nut to crack.
PS on a points bike the one coil is hot with the ignition on even with the engine not turning. Odds are very high the battery charger killed at least one of your coils too.

 

[raven2345]

Hope you haven't smoked anything yet. You have to have a battery in the circuit. The charger is putting out poorly rectified AC not the DC your bike wants and and needs. Your rectifier and voltage regulator are doing their best to get rid of the excessive voltage and bizarre AC they are seeing, they are willing to die trying.

Oops I just saw the smoke remark. I think you just got a very expensive lesson in why not to take short cuts when reviving an old bike.

I'm new to older machines, and especially bikes. I was decently skeptical on trying to get it to run on charger, but figured what the hell. This was bought as a project anyways, so there isn't quite a way to get around the expensive part. Hahah, and lastly, I wasn't ready to fork out the money for a battery, when I KNOW I won't be using it at all when the bike is finished.

Although you will ignore this: The SIMPLEST shortest way to do a build is to get the bike running GOOD and reliably completely stock THEN start modding it. (sigh)

This, I understand too. I've got a 240SX project car, and have learned many a build lessons with that toy.

Now that the smoke got out of it, You are screwed. Buy a manual, study it and be prepared to get Your hands dirty.

I consider myself lucky, because the Yamaha FSM came with the bike. Hands dirty? They're never clean thanks to the aforementioned car above.

I'll rearrange what I'm really asking: is there any way to not use the voltage regulator, even if it requires the Hugh's kit? I'm looking to do a full, frame/chassis restoration, with a decent tuneup and adjustment on the motor/carbs, and Pamco ignition. I love anything to be stripped down to bare bones minimum that it needs to run, so.. That leads to redoing the stock harness or just making my own, and hopefully getting rid of quite a few things. I've glanced at a few of the diagrams on here, but don't want to take out this regulator if it's gonna screw me in the end.

Thanks again guys for the help and replies.

edit: You guys are quick at replying here. Hahah, but yes, Pamco ignition with new coils is no doubt later on.

 

[gggGary]

Yeah there is a dodge (pun) using a cheap chrysler voltage regulator. You do need one in the system even without a battery to keep voltage in line when the motor is revved up. Sorry just had to unload a bit on the start modding before fixing thing. If it makes you feel better I have done nearly every dumb trick in the book myself and still pull em now and then!

PS any old 12 volt battery as a "ballast" in the system to "get it running" will work a garden tractor or car battery is fine. I use them myself for get R goin' duties. Better actually to use a battery rather than a charger for whole trouble shooting thing.

 

[raven2345]

..I would first like to express my hate on having a complete reply typed up and somehow exiting the browser before I press reply.

I've been starting to read up on the Chrysler regulator, which I guess is my best bet if I need to have one wired in. You're all good on the unloading, that's why we have internet, lol. Had I known about the "any 12 volt will work in the mean time," I would have tried it. I'm still not too far into to to NOT try it though... Maybe. It's lethally hot here.

 

[XSLeo]

In the FSM it has the procedures for testing the regulator and rectifier. It uses diagrams as well as the written word to explain how the charging system works.
If you plan on going to the PMA with a cap you will need to do lots of rewiring to get it to work. So making your own harness will be just a small step farther.
The stock harness can be stripped apart and give you most of the wire you need to build the new one. And the colors will match the stock harness, which is a good idea. when you ask electrical questions most people refer to stock colors in the answers.
Back to regulators, as other have said you have to have a regulator. On your bike it has a mechanical regulator. This reg is adjustable. Even new it had a tendency to over charge at sustained high speeds. If you adjusted it to not over charge at high speeds it would under charge around town. The stock system if maintained works fine.
The 70-79 bikes used the same mechanical reg and separate rec. In 80 they upgraded to a solid state combo reg/rec. This works well.
The 70-79 bike the Chrysler reg/Radio Shack rec mods will vastly improve the charging system, not so much an improvement on the 80 up as a less expensive replacement. Less than $30 VS over $100.
I might reccomend using the points and stock charging sytem working to start with. Once you get the bike running then you can convert to the PMA. Often getting the PMS conversion charging right can be problematic.
Once the PMA is functioning properly then adding the Pamco Ignition will be safer for the Pamco.
If the PMA reg malfuntcions or is hooked up wrong it can send 20+ voltage to the ignition. This can and will toast the Pamco.
If you do some reading of the threads about the PMA conversions you will see some of the problems and the fixes.
Leo

 

[5twins]

First answer - you can't expect to start a bike that's been sitting for 20 years without looking inside the carbs, they're probably gummed up solid. Even hooking it up to a nuclear reactor won't help, lol.