No neutral when pullling in the clutch...

[Rez Fink]

Ok my clutch was slipping a few months back and so I ordered new clutch springs and drained the oil. Well I barely got to my project a couple weeks ago. When I removed the plates I noticed a thin curly wire sticking out inside the basket. I pulled it..and it grew and grew... After research I found out it was the clutch boss clip/ring. (I HAVE AN 83 XS650SK) So I ordered that part and installed it with the new clutch springs...

So here's my problem...

After I installed I did a quick pull on the clutch lever...it looked like the plates/basket moved out. So I put the right cover back on. I put oil back in it and fired it up, pulled in the clutch and dropped it in first. After a short lurch forward it stalled. I tried dropping into 1-5 gears and moved the bike back and forward WITH THE CLUTCH LEVER PULLED IN and it wont go into 'neutral'. (while not running)

my guesses:
- i put the clutch plates back in but NOT in the right sequence? or facing the right way?(is there a right way?)
- the clutch plates dried out and somehow this is effecting it?
- somehow by putting in the new clutch boss ring/clip that's affecting it?
- the new clutch springs are too much pressure for the worn clutch plates.(yes they were SLIGHTLY below the recommended thickness)

ANYWAYS.... let your knowledge flow and hopefully someone can give me the right answer.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

If you had the hub out, you may want to revisit the assembly of the basket / washers / hub, to be sure that the hub isn't binding on the basket.

Have a look at vsop_dk's video of his clutch action in here.
See if your pressure plate moved like that.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42846

 

[peanut]

this video might be helpful and also the numbered sequence image
Don't forget to check that you haven't lost the neutral detent ball bearing and spring

 

[nj1639]

^ A picture is worth a thousand words and that one above I keep in my files. I've changed complete baskets for the style you're running from the earlier ones and that sequence of parts and pieces is invaluable.
Kudos to peanut!

Don't forget to re-adjust the clutch and cable when you're done.

 

[peanut]

^ A picture is worth a thousand words and that one above I keep in my files. I've changed complete baskets for the style you're running from the earlier ones and that sequence of parts and pieces is invaluable.
Kudos to peanut!

Don't forget to re-adjust the clutch and cable when you're done.

cheers nj1639 My memory is so bad these days I need it myself

 

[XSLeo]

Any time you change clutch parts or even tear it down for other reasons you always need to readjust the worm and cable.
Leo

 

[Rez Fink]

Ok so I've disassembled and reassembled it and still the same problem .

- the conical spring - what direction should it face?

- there are small numbers stamped into my clutch friction plates 3's and one 4. What's that all about and is there a sequence?

- maybe I just didn't adjust the worm drive to go far enough ?

- lastly I need to check
If that ball bearing fell out and in just not aware of it?

 

[peanut]

well its difficult to know without seeing your clutch setup but here are a couple of things to check.
Check If you have a long clutch push rod make sure that the thinner end goes into the worm mechanism the other end will jamb in the end of the worm
Check that you have a ballbearing inside the worm mech
Check that the worm mechanism isn't sticking due to friction from being overtightened into the cover
Check that the worm arm is starting in the correct position when assembling so that it has full travel.
Its such a simple mechanism it has to be a very simple problem as it worked perfectly before you dismantled it.

 

[pamcopete]

Don't forget this little detail:

www.650motorcycles.com/assembly1.html

 

[Rez Fink]

Ok guys thanks for all the info and I will look into those suggestions when I get to it.... One other thing I forgot to mention was --- when I pull the clutch lever the the clutch pack DOES move in and out (I can see it with the right cover removed)

 

[peanut]

never got a reply to the question about your neutral detent and spring ?
Have you removed and checked your neutral detent switch and spring are all assembled and installed correctly with the bullet end facing down towards the gear drum ?

Do you have two problems here or just one ?

If your engine stalls when you have the clutch pulled in then it is the clutch assembly or adjustment thats at fault . Its not because you can't select neutral ...........although you may have that seperate problem also

I think you are going to have to bite the bullet and strip your clutch again and check it make sure all the plates are in the right sequence and disengaging etc

 

[nj1639]

Might need to look into the safety switches as you have an '83.
The side stand safety switch will kill your engine just like you mentioned in your first post, though adding that you were having trouble locating neutral after she stalled is almost normal but could be related to adjustment since you've been into the clutch.

Then there's the neutral safety switch too. This just in......
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43153

 

[Rez Fink]

I don't think it's the kickstand kill switch at all as that has been long removed ...lol

When I say it stalls I mean when I put it in gear even when the clutch lever is pulled in the bike lunges forward and stalls.

On another note I never took the left cover off or the worm gear out ... I've just adjusted the Phillips screw from the outside ....

Also on my 83 I have the conical spring which is like a large disc/washer ...which way does it face?

And the pressure plate and basket have the marks which I HAVE lined up ...

As far as neutral detent switch installed correctly I'm not sure what you're referring to ? I'll look it up.

The clutch is all taken apart again now so can inspect it all carefully...

Thanks!!!

 

[peanut]

you'll find it on top of the crankcase next to the oil filla it will probably have a single wire attached .
Make sure that the plates were not sticking together and the clutch basket fingers do not have lots of grooves in them which will hinder smooth plate seperation.
Most important of all check that you have all of the washers and that they are the correct thickness and in the correct sequence.

 

[Rez Fink]

OK OK....! I have more clues ....!

As I mentioned in my first post I installed new clutch springs....what I did NOT mention was I also installed the clutch spring Allen head screw mod ...!! It is a two part mod that consists of an aluminum spacer and an Allen head bolt/screw. MAYBE the screw is a bit too long and hanging up behind the basket ???? Anyone have a spec on the OEM bolt ? (I know there is a write up on a do it yourself mod for the screw which I've read and will search for after I post this)

The other thing is maybe my friction plates are too far gone and too thin?? I measured from the thickest part BUT there are grooves in the friction plates. Do I measure from the inside of the groove (am I making sense?) If I do measure from the inside of the groove then they are below the recommended thickness.

 

[peanut]

what I did NOT mention was I also installed the clutch spring Allen head screw mod ...!! It MAYBE the screw is a bit too long and hanging up behind the basket ????



View attachment 57629View attachment 57630

this is why I suggest a picture so that we can see the likely problem.

why don't you compare the thread insertion depth of the original bolts with that of the new bolts

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Your second pic doesn't look right. The pressure plate is setting too far out.

Check out these threads:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42846

 

[Rez Fink]

Ok the Allen screw I have is 45mm and the recommended length is 40mm....sooooo it probably is sticking out the backside of the clutch basket causing it to get stuck ....

Also I think the reason the pressure plate is sticking out so much is the Phillips screw in the worm drive is cranked in pretty far because i was trying all sorts of adjustments to get the clutch to free up...

I'll check on these things when I get home from work today....

(Crossing fingers!!)

 

[peanut]

what is the thick black disk at the front of the clutch pack behind the pressure plate or is it a shadow ?
How many steel and how many friction disks are in the pack and what is the order from back to front ?

 

[Rez Fink]

I think that's the friction plate material you are seeing ...