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Nylon screws
- Thread starter apox
- Start date
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- electrical
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
Ok thanks mate, that listings from China, I'll try somewhere local first
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
POSTED THIS TO MY ORIGINAL
"I'm back in the game" thread...
Ok I've got the 3 nylon screws fitted to the inner brush..Do I leave the one metal screw for outer brush as is?
Presume I do or it'd be mentioned.
Now with all the changing around of wires I've been doing I'm lost as what to do next?...
This is how it stands now.
3 whites go via connector to the the whites from/into reg/rec.
Green from the brush goes to green in regulator via connector.
Right now black from brush is going into rec/reg via connector block.
Brown from R/R is going to switched power.
Is that correct???
I'm gonna start it now and see if there's any charging indicated at the battery.
NO CHARGING HAPPENING!
Where do I go from here?...
Thinks I may need to bridge the black wire from
brush onto the brown wire from R/R that goes to switched power?
I'll try that?
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Yes, right now the black wire from the inner brush was sending a ground to the regulator, but it's not anymore because of the nylon screws. It needs to be connected to a switched power line (that brown you mentioned). I'm not sure if the regulator will need another ground connected to it's black wire but it might.
Here's the mod in a nutshell - originally the three mounting screws grounded the inner brush full time to the alternator housing (because they screwed right into it). The black wire connected to the inner brush wasn't sending it a ground, it was actually picking one up and sending it to the regulator. When you change the 3 mounting screws to nylon ones, that isolates the inner brush from the alternator housing and ungrounds it. This allows you to feed it switched power now without it shorting out. And yes, nothing needs to be done to the outer brush (wire or mounting screw).
One more thing I'll mention - I hope those 10mm long screws you got are long enough because I'm pretty sure the ones you're replacing were 12mm long. You might want to check that .....
Here's the mod in a nutshell - originally the three mounting screws grounded the inner brush full time to the alternator housing (because they screwed right into it). The black wire connected to the inner brush wasn't sending it a ground, it was actually picking one up and sending it to the regulator. When you change the 3 mounting screws to nylon ones, that isolates the inner brush from the alternator housing and ungrounds it. This allows you to feed it switched power now without it shorting out. And yes, nothing needs to be done to the outer brush (wire or mounting screw).
One more thing I'll mention - I hope those 10mm long screws you got are long enough because I'm pretty sure the ones you're replacing were 12mm long. You might want to check that .....
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motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
I'll try to get my head around what you are saying.
I will add what I wrote in the other thread and hadn't edited in here.
Not only still not charging but with the black wire from R/R to earth or ground as you call it, and the brown from R/R still joined to switched power and joined to Black from brushes as well, Now the engine runs like crap, missing and backfiring through the exhaust....No Joy Here!
Gonna put it back how I had it and hope there's no more damage.
That when I had the bike wired as above the bike ran like absolute crap, missing , popping and banging, I thought I'd fried the Boyer or something!
I put it all back how I had it , even put the metal screws back in, and thankfully it ran good again...
Still not charging though...
I'll have another read and try to work out exactly what to do ,
I'll show a friend what you've written too, he may understand it better.
Can you tell be in simple step by step instructions exactly what to do... I'm lost.
Bikes running ok I can ride it in daylight for now.
And I have 2 other bikes so it's not the end of the world.
I'd just like to get it right.
There's the correct regulator coming for the earthed brushes, it may have wiring instructions I can understand.
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Pics of the regulator and connectors? That and any documentation that came with it.
The brushes can be wired to accept both types of regulators.... A and B.
Key is knowing which regulator you have. If you don't know which type it is, wiring it up just becomes trial and error.
The brushes can be wired to accept both types of regulators.... A and B.
Key is knowing which regulator you have. If you don't know which type it is, wiring it up just becomes trial and error.
Yes, as Jim said, you need to determine what type regulator you have (A or B) and that will tell you how the brushes need to be wired. The A type regulator sends a regulated ground signal to the outer brush, the B type sends a regulated power signal. So to complete the circuit with an A type regulator, the inner brush must be powered, with a B type regulator, the inner brush must be grounded.
One more thing I'll mention - from reading your other thread, I see you're running #8 plugs? That's a step too cold, you should be using #7's. And I also noticed you're using the standard B type plug. You want the BP type, the ones with the extended tip. You want NGK BP7ES plugs .....
NGK recently changed the stock number on these, from 1034 to 2412. Since this is a recent change, you still may find some on the shelf with the old 1034 stock number.
One more thing I'll mention - from reading your other thread, I see you're running #8 plugs? That's a step too cold, you should be using #7's. And I also noticed you're using the standard B type plug. You want the BP type, the ones with the extended tip. You want NGK BP7ES plugs .....
NGK recently changed the stock number on these, from 1034 to 2412. Since this is a recent change, you still may find some on the shelf with the old 1034 stock number.
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motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
Thanks for the "heads up" on the plugs, I'll grab a pair!
Just removed the R/R unit and no identification visible.
Previous owner/ builder said he purchased from Electrex World in the UK.
Cant find receipt so not certain which he ordered
Here's the website https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/
Now going there and searching XS650 comes up with what I presume the later models R/R....which would be what he ordered, I reckon ..BUT..
Further searching reveals a unit for the earlier pre 80 bikes...
That is the unit that he has purchased a month ago and is supposed to be shipping to me as we speak....
Still waiting ......
I'm a tad impatient so thought the nylon Screw idea would enable me to use this R/R,
Well at least till the proper one arrives...
Anyway if you check out the website you'll see what I'm talking about
Here's a couple of pix of the unit that was fitted, mounted under the fabricated battery box.
I presume I need the wiring for the later model R/R to the early stator brushes ..
That'd be a good start if someone can clue me in .
In simple easy to understand directions.
Thanks.
Just removed the R/R unit and no identification visible.
Previous owner/ builder said he purchased from Electrex World in the UK.
Cant find receipt so not certain which he ordered
Here's the website https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/
Now going there and searching XS650 comes up with what I presume the later models R/R....which would be what he ordered, I reckon ..BUT..
Further searching reveals a unit for the earlier pre 80 bikes...
That is the unit that he has purchased a month ago and is supposed to be shipping to me as we speak....
Still waiting ......
I'm a tad impatient so thought the nylon Screw idea would enable me to use this R/R,
Well at least till the proper one arrives...
Anyway if you check out the website you'll see what I'm talking about
Here's a couple of pix of the unit that was fitted, mounted under the fabricated battery box.
I presume I need the wiring for the later model R/R to the early stator brushes ..
That'd be a good start if someone can clue me in .
In simple easy to understand directions.
Thanks.
We need pictures of the alternator and a description of the Year model so we know the setup
There was a shift in 1980 from points to electronic
But that shift did not happen in Oceania and Europe our 1980 still has the old style setup ( I believe )
I ordered a regulator rectifier for a 1980 year model in Europe .. from China on e -bay. Connected it and fried it ...the regulator part inside upon installation
Faster than someone can spell Blue Smoke ..
Got my money back from the chinese seller on e- bay no problems.
So in a christmas spirit please provide the pictures and a description part no or so on the reg /rec we shall try to figure it out
Please do not connect the new one before this is thought over .. or it can end up in immediately frying the regulator rect combo.
The one in the picture can be fried already and if so the Nylon Screws wont help the charging.
There was a shift in 1980 from points to electronic
But that shift did not happen in Oceania and Europe our 1980 still has the old style setup ( I believe )
I ordered a regulator rectifier for a 1980 year model in Europe .. from China on e -bay. Connected it and fried it ...the regulator part inside upon installation
Faster than someone can spell Blue Smoke ..
Got my money back from the chinese seller on e- bay no problems.
So in a christmas spirit please provide the pictures and a description part no or so on the reg /rec we shall try to figure it out
Please do not connect the new one before this is thought over .. or it can end up in immediately frying the regulator rect combo.
The one in the picture can be fried already and if so the Nylon Screws wont help the charging.
The easy tell is the connector(s). Generally speaking, if it has 2 connectors, it's a type B.
If it's a single connector, it's a type A
Keep in mind someone else might have already screwed with yours and made a 2 connector a single or vise versa....
Your single sleaved harness coming from the reg/rec makes me think it's a type A.
If it's a single connector, it's a type A
Keep in mind someone else might have already screwed with yours and made a 2 connector a single or vise versa....
Your single sleaved harness coming from the reg/rec makes me think it's a type A.
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
Yeah Jim I reckon it's Type A too which is RR32 on their website.
An RR35 Type B is supposed to be on its way but website is showing OUT OF STOCK.
So the mission is to wire the RR32 TYPE A to my early rotor stator combo with nylon screws mod..
I've done a test on the RR with multimeter and diodes are zero on both in one direction and in the low 600s on both in one direction, so I reckon the RR is okay.
Once the inner brush is ungrounded (nylon screws) this should work for you.
I'm half a world away. So this is all based off your pics and descriptions.
In other words.... it ain't guaranteed.
I'm half a world away. So this is all based off your pics and descriptions.
In other words.... it ain't guaranteed.
What you did is only the test for the rectifier portion. I'm not sure how to test the regulator part. But, many times these Chinese reg/rec units are bad right out of the box. That's why many of us use automotive regulators combined with a rectifier from the electronics world. Much cheaper and better quality. Here's a write-up on the two types .....
https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/
https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/
Here's a simplified diagram from Tech that shows the type A pretty well.
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
Cooking a 6 egg omelette right now and then taking one of my children for a driving lesson ( they need 100 hours here before they can do the test).
So I'll have a crack at wiring it tonight.
Thanks Everyone
So I'll have a crack at wiring it tonight.
Thanks Everyone
Unless you have a test bench, there is no easy way to test the regulator part of it.
Only way us end users have is to plug it in and see if it works.
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
motorbikerx
XS650 Addict
Okay...word is, ...latest from the guy I bought the bike off.
He's contacted Electrex World and there's a problem ...no supply till end of January!
It's my guess they get em on a slow boat from China and load the price!
So I reckon today I'll get a chance to try wiring the reg I have over to the nylon screws.
If it don't work I'll go to the Auto Reg mod.
Took the yellow Victory Kingpin on a group ride yesterday and after riding the 650 my Vic is an absolute beast!
133horse at rear wheel...
Great Therapy
He's contacted Electrex World and there's a problem ...no supply till end of January!
It's my guess they get em on a slow boat from China and load the price!
So I reckon today I'll get a chance to try wiring the reg I have over to the nylon screws.
If it don't work I'll go to the Auto Reg mod.
Took the yellow Victory Kingpin on a group ride yesterday and after riding the 650 my Vic is an absolute beast!
133horse at rear wheel...
Great Therapy
