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On the road again at 40.............the bike that is
Yes I get your point xjwmx and good info, thanks.
The way I'm looking at it is we're going in there anyways so might as well have a little look around while we're in the neighborhood.
The way I'm looking at it is we're going in there anyways so might as well have a little look around while we're in the neighborhood.
The Tsubaki chain is supposed to be better than the D.I.D. you usually find in there, so quality of the replacement shouldn't be an issue. I changed mine because I was running out of timing plate adjustment. The new chain put the plate right back in the middle of it's adjustment range. I'll admit, I'm a cheap S.O.B., but I do spend the extra $40 on a new chain when I go into one of these for the first time. Granted, the chains can and do last 10s of thousands of miles if properly cared for. But there's the rub - most of these bikes didn't get that. There's also the fact that Yamaha's service intervals for the chain, like every 4K miles, may have been wrong. A guy posted on these forums years back that his dealer told him to check the cam chain more often, like every 1000 miles. He told him 4K miles was fine for the valves but not for the cam chain. I've gotten into the habit of checking mine at every oil change, which is 1000 to 1500 miles for me.
Then there's another factor, that notorious type D adjuster assembly without the lock nut. Every time you put the acorn nut back on you could inadvertently make your adjustment tighter, and well, a tight chain stretches out faster. My bike had that adjuster and so does both of Robin's.
Then there's another factor, that notorious type D adjuster assembly without the lock nut. Every time you put the acorn nut back on you could inadvertently make your adjustment tighter, and well, a tight chain stretches out faster. My bike had that adjuster and so does both of Robin's.
Lol, here's a pic of an upgrade I bought on eBay last year.
Said to the seller "I'd hate to see what the rest of that engine looks like".
13 pics in the ad, none showed this damage.
Got my money back after threatening to 'take the matter upstairs', but did eat both trips. Still haven't gotten around to tracking down 2 more yet but haven't looked for awhile.
Lesson learned when buying used motorcycle parts on the internet - "more pics please"
I would never check mine that often, only because I want to go as long as I can without feeling that big slackness that means the front guide has fallen off
But seriously, I check mine's adjustment whenever, and it always passes the test. That's what lets me know I can just check it whenever. And the test(s) have a broad plateau for passing, and there are so many different tests and there's no real basis for choosing one over some others, and they're in some conflict with each other. What I liked for a long time was loosening it so you could hear it, and then tightening it just until you couldn't
Thought I'd post an update here on recent events.
Tools are rolling in but no parts yet. Which is nice in a way as it has given me a chance to enjoy some time in the saddle.
You may have seen the ‘What have you done to your Xs today’ posts by Pete and I about our attending the CVMG Rally this weekend.
What a treat meeting him and Lakeview, couple of top drawer guys and a great show. Man Pete sure fought his way to that show.
At the show Pete made the comment that “you’ve got it running great, why don't you enjoy it for awhile and pull the engine in the fall.”
He also suggested trying a new set of advance springs.
Of course I like that idea but don't know how much longer I can play the 'stop for oil and check the gas’ game.
gggGary’s recommendation to put in hotter plugs is sure working. Based on past experience I would have oil fouled out a plug awhile ago.
After finding the ’long way home’ I put a total of 400 kms - 250 miles on her Saturday
Checked the oil before heading out again today and it was down 800 ml - just over ¾’s of a quart.
Put the advance springs on from my 78. No joy there, so will try swapping in the other advance weights and see what happens. I'm not fighting the Pamco / E-advance upgrade just trying things to see if I can get an improvement. But I am wondering if the problem might also be with the cam chain.
Had a few errands to run today, also picked up some parts and ordered some rear wheel bearings and seals.
Ya gotta allow extra time whenever you park one of these don't you? Man, that is fun though.
Managed to turn 30 kms - 20 miles of errands today into 160 kms - 100 miles.
Mostly at 90 - 100 kph / 55 - 60 mph. Runs great at 4000 rpm, 60 mph, that seems to be her sweet spot, in her current state of tune anyways. 4500 rpm - 70 mph she’s not as smooth.
When I got home today, no sign of any oil loss. Interestingly, no more head or base gasket leaking over the last 560 kms.
Noticed some cam chain noise as well when I got home, expected it to be loose and it had actually tightened up by 2 - 2 ½ mm on the plunger.
I'm guessing my cam chain is pretty stretched, but surprised it tightened up versus loosening up.
So have sure been having a blast riding again. Bumped into my machinist at the CVMG rally this weekend so he knows what’s up, and what’s coming.
Gonna stop slacking off and get back to the books so I’ll be better prepared when everything's here.
And enjoy a few more rides.
Will keep an eye on the oil level daily but if swapping the advance weights doesn’t help and I keep burning this much oil, might be at this sooner than later.
Tools are rolling in but no parts yet. Which is nice in a way as it has given me a chance to enjoy some time in the saddle.
You may have seen the ‘What have you done to your Xs today’ posts by Pete and I about our attending the CVMG Rally this weekend.
What a treat meeting him and Lakeview, couple of top drawer guys and a great show. Man Pete sure fought his way to that show.
At the show Pete made the comment that “you’ve got it running great, why don't you enjoy it for awhile and pull the engine in the fall.”
He also suggested trying a new set of advance springs.
Of course I like that idea but don't know how much longer I can play the 'stop for oil and check the gas’ game.
gggGary’s recommendation to put in hotter plugs is sure working. Based on past experience I would have oil fouled out a plug awhile ago.
After finding the ’long way home’ I put a total of 400 kms - 250 miles on her Saturday
Checked the oil before heading out again today and it was down 800 ml - just over ¾’s of a quart.
Put the advance springs on from my 78. No joy there, so will try swapping in the other advance weights and see what happens. I'm not fighting the Pamco / E-advance upgrade just trying things to see if I can get an improvement. But I am wondering if the problem might also be with the cam chain.
Had a few errands to run today, also picked up some parts and ordered some rear wheel bearings and seals.
Ya gotta allow extra time whenever you park one of these don't you? Man, that is fun though.
Managed to turn 30 kms - 20 miles of errands today into 160 kms - 100 miles.
Mostly at 90 - 100 kph / 55 - 60 mph. Runs great at 4000 rpm, 60 mph, that seems to be her sweet spot, in her current state of tune anyways. 4500 rpm - 70 mph she’s not as smooth.
When I got home today, no sign of any oil loss. Interestingly, no more head or base gasket leaking over the last 560 kms.
Noticed some cam chain noise as well when I got home, expected it to be loose and it had actually tightened up by 2 - 2 ½ mm on the plunger.
I'm guessing my cam chain is pretty stretched, but surprised it tightened up versus loosening up.
So have sure been having a blast riding again. Bumped into my machinist at the CVMG rally this weekend so he knows what’s up, and what’s coming.
Gonna stop slacking off and get back to the books so I’ll be better prepared when everything's here.
And enjoy a few more rides.
Will keep an eye on the oil level daily but if swapping the advance weights doesn’t help and I keep burning this much oil, might be at this sooner than later.
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^A good thing about not having everything you need at once, or for that matter not having the energy to get off your butt, is that it gives you lots of time to mentally measure twice and cut once.
The cam chain is "shorter" when the engine is hot, if that was a difference in measuring. I would not expect an old original cam chain to wear any amount from a few hundred miles.
I recently did wheel bearings after doing some work on the rear wheel and one of the seals included was funky; green and not rubber coated, and possibly wrong size. I reused the old seal after flattening it back out with some light tapping. Both were All Balls brand.
The cam chain is "shorter" when the engine is hot, if that was a difference in measuring. I would not expect an old original cam chain to wear any amount from a few hundred miles.
I recently did wheel bearings after doing some work on the rear wheel and one of the seals included was funky; green and not rubber coated, and possibly wrong size. I reused the old seal after flattening it back out with some light tapping. Both were All Balls brand.
Thanks xjwmx, Should have said the plunger had tightened up by 2 - 2 ½ mm. Edited above. Which was a surprise. So as it heats it it will actually shorten and tighten up the plunger somewhat?
^It seems to get tighter is all I can say. The plunger will move less is the easiest way to see it. Unless it was overly tight or loose to start with maybe. You can judge the plunger movement with a fingernail while the engine is running.
Ya, that's why I was surprised. It had been set so that you could just feel a little in and out movement on the plunger when running, so when I heard the noise today and checked was surprised that the plunger was actually tightened up so much.
Ya that makes sense 5twins thanks.
Hey robinc don't know if you saw it but I got the valve seal replacement done on the survivor. Big help, no smoke till i really worked it down into first on a steep hill. Wife said even then it was just a little. Will have to run off a couple of tanks and see how oil consumption is doing.
Plugs before the seal change, this motor has 11,000 mile and seems pretty healthy. the tappets is for 2m those are the originals back in for another 1k miles or so
Plugs before the seal change, this motor has 11,000 mile and seems pretty healthy. the tappets is for 2m those are the originals back in for another 1k miles or so
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Robin, so glad you're getting to have some fun with your bike before you tear it down. Enjoy it while you've got some nice weather, and it gives you more time to prepare.
Yes I saw that gggGary. Good job!
Forgot to go back and look at Farrel and Greppers videos. Having too much fun riding! LOL.
Question for you. Would it be worth me giving this a go, then doing your meatball mechanic valve clean up and see where we're at then?
I know 5twins says that my good compression readings could be due to oil leaking past the rings giving me a false positive. This would solve the valve seal leak but how would I then know if the rings were leaking? Other than excessive oil consumption I guess.
Guess I'm looking for your guys best advice, I sure trust what you guys say. If this is worth a shot avoiding pulling the engine, I'll give it a go.
If pulling it now and doing the full Monty is the best way to go, then that's what I'll do.
It will have to happen at some point anyways I guess to do the cam chain and guide, and if it's out, cylinders, pistons, rings, etc. can be checked.
I know this is a more complicated job, but not that bad as I am seeing, and there's the added piece of mind that everything's fresh for a few more years.
Thank you all for your help and advice and look forward to what you guys think on how I should proceed.
Gotta work tomorrow, no time to ride......bummer.
Are those the tappets I reground last year to 9mm radius?
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-valve-and-clutch-adjusters-resurfacing.41639/page-3#post-461648
An ol' shop quickie trick. Gotta do this in a very quiet area. Slowly shove the kickstart while listening. You MUST know the difference between feeling resistance during the compression stroke, and the following resistance while the piston is retracting (pulling a vacuum) during the dead power stroke. Listen to the sounds of escaping air. Valve leaks can be heard in the carbs and mufflers. Leaking rings will sound like a lizard hissing in a garbage can. With any significant leakage, the piston will hit TDC rather easily, and retract rather easily.
However, this test may be meaningless for you. It's one of those things that you develop a sense for, when you have numerous bikes floating thru a shop, and can compare to known good engines. Even good engines will demonstrate a bit of this leakage, but it's different. More resistance, slower leakage, milder sound.
*Gads*, how does one explain these kind of things?
Edit: It would've been a great opportunity to do this kind of comparison when you guyz had your meet-up last week...
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2m somewhere in the mists, we talked of this but the grind apparently took off the hard layer and those tappets quickly wore, in a path where the valve stem touched.
Rob you have to choose but if it's your only bike and it's working good, ride it through the (short Canadian) summer, do a rebuild in the (long Canadian) winter.
Rob you have to choose but if it's your only bike and it's working good, ride it through the (short Canadian) summer, do a rebuild in the (long Canadian) winter.
Ya, LOL. I can see that is one of these 'experienced ear' kinda things.
But I do have my 78 sittin' inline behind her. Was planning on doing a pressure test on it just for grins and giggles (fingers crossed all the while).
I'll try this out on the both of them and see if I can hear any significant differences.
Mentioned to Lakeview (who has a collection unsurpassed save probably gggGary) on the weekend, that it sure is nice to have another bike sitting there when putting things back together. "Oh so that's how that goes"
