On the road again at 40.............the bike that is

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Also, double check the flatness, and flat seating of the points, sub-plate, and main plate. Ensure that points and plate screws don't protrude to interfere with seating. If the front (exhaust valve direction) of the points plate (or sub-plate) is raised slightly, the left cylinder points will fire early, and the outside edge of its follower will be the only contact with the points cam, out where things are a bit more wobbly...

 

[robinc]

Hmmm, good tips 2M. I'll have a look at that. I did replace all the screws last year to get rid of the old stripped ones. Maybe some of them are a tad longer and that's preventing the plate(s) from fully seating?

Thanks for the idea!

 

[robinc]

Had a short work day. By choice or by chance? So I was able to get back into the shop.

Tried swapping condenser leads, no change, so I guess that tells me this new Daiichi condenser is OK. Wires and caps were new last summer so they should be OK.

Found a couple of issues.
Checked dwell again and it had increased by a degree or so on the left side to 21.5* - 21.8*. 5twins says should be 22* - 24.5* on the 4cyl setting.
I imagine this increased gap won't help with early points opening, adding to the problem.

But, paint me green and call me a pickle!
2M, you never cease to amaze me sir! You nailed it………..‘Again’.

Had a look at the screws I had put in, they looked to be the same length as the original stripped screws that I took out.
Seemed to measure the same length but it's hard to measure thread length on those little beggars and the heads were different so couldn’t measure overall length.
Then went digging in my hardware boxes and found ‘someone’ must have added new points plate screws to a parts order one day.
They were definitely shorter than the originals and than my replacements.

Swapped them in and I'm no longer at the extreme limit of adjustment. Things have settled down, no more bouncing around. So those screws must have been too long to seat the plate properly. Huh.

Thanks 2M, I owe ya another one!


Now, ya want to put your diagnostics hat on again?

When tuning noticed a noise that I have not heard before. After revving it up, when it drops back to idle I have been noticing a rapid click click or click click click noise. I know that’s not very helpful.
This is a new one. Definitely on the right side. I first wondered if it was oil pump or tach drive but I think it’s back in the transmission.

When I put a mechanic's stethoscope on the neutral detent plunger I pick it up….

and more so here at this case bolt

It's running great, shifts fine, (a little clunk noise going 1st to 2nd), neutral occasionally an issue after a few miles when warmed up (need to fine tune clutch adjustment a bit) but a little crack of the throttle solves neutral problem.

Starter gear fix was done last fall and did not hear this noise back then.
Edit: tried the Kickstarter today for the first time, works fine.

Any ideas on this one guys? Am I worrying about nothing, tipping it over to pull the right case again to look for something amiss, or digging deeper?

 

[Mailman]

Great detective work! Running down that points issue. You’re really getting it down to the details now.
I hope your clicking noise doesn’t cause you any real problems, I’m at a loss to guess the source.

 

[robinc]

Well Bob, it's really 2M who deserves the credit. I never would have thought of checking the screw length.

I hope your clicking noise doesn’t cause you any real problems, I’m at a loss to guess the source.

Me too,me too.

 

[MaxPete]

Would the OEM points brand be Denso?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey, Rob. Glad it was just the screws. Sometimes ya just never know 'bout these things.

So, now you've got a tick?

May need to call in the experts on this.


He can be reached at "Google's Pizza", odd numbered Thursdays..

I'm sure a lotta folks here are thinkin' clutch basket springs, or kickstart, maybe misplaced dragclip, but you've already addressed kickstart issues. So, let's try a couple things.

Bike on centerstand, engine off, trans in neutral:
Roll the rear wheel fore/aft, listen.
This exercises the countershaft and a couple of mainshaft gears.

Bike on centerstand, engine off, trans in any gear.
Roll the rear wheel fore/aft, listen.
Normal sound would be from gear dogs hitting their slots.
Try it in all gears.
This exercises the countershaft, mainshaft, clutch.

Same as above, with clutch lever pulled-in.
This may help isolate clutch hub/disc sounds from basket springs sounds.

Of course, it helps if you have something to compare with...

 

[robinc]

Hey, Rob. Glad it was just the screws. Sometimes ya just never know 'bout these things.

Yes, me too 2M, that was an easy one to fix, thanks for the tip.

Ok, thanks for the tests. I'll give all those a go tomorrow.

Just so happens my 78E is parked a few feet behind her so easy to do some comparisons.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that you must own 2 of these bikes for comparative analysis and testing purposes.

We'll hope that there is no 'Terror' involved,

 

[robinc]

Ran through your tests 2M. No unusual noises,clicks, ticks or clunks.
Been so long since I've done anything on my other bike that I forgot the chain is off and clutch cable is disconnected so couldn't do any comparisons, but I don't think it's necessary

Just the sounds you describe from the gear dogs hitting their slots.

No unusual clutch basket spring noises.

Took it out for a good run to warm it up, and barely there now, but the couple of times that I did hear it after my return it did sound like it was in the clutch basket area.

Maybe as Mailman Bob says I'm just being overly sensitive, concerned that I messed something up?

I did also notice that my replacement lower engine bolt is a tad long and making contact with the muffler. Perhaps some expansion/contraction noise is telegraphing through this?

I do have to spend some time fine tuning clutch adjustment so maybe this will show something?

I'll check things again as I have time over the next couple of days and see what we see.

Thanks again for the tips!

 

[Mailman]

I hope that noise will fade as you get a little run time in. I got a feeling you're all good.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...Perhaps some expansion/contraction noise is telegraphing through this?

Now, That's a good possibility. Been more than a couple posts in here on odd sounds traced down to just that, exhaust dinging...

 

[robinc]

Well 2M. Thanks for checking in. I think it's more likely your clutch basket spring analysis though.

My clinkin’, clickin’ and tickin’ is back. It runs fine, rich on the right side, so need to do some carb adjustments, but that’s the least of my concerns right now. Still popping on the right too, so gonna give those exhaust studs a bit more. They were backed off and re torqued, but I'll carefully give them a little more.

Yesterday and today, shifts smooth, lots of power, running great but when I got home this noise is back.

I cut some horseshoe shaped shims from a couple washers to slip over the lower engine bolt and move it away from the muffler, no more contact. No help there unfortunately. No joy there 2M.

So I tried doing some videos to capture the noise. I know this is pretty tough for you guys to diagnose from a distance and I hope what I got helps. It does sound more like it’s coming from the clutch basket area and then sometimes will telegraph up the cylinders where it's a tinny sound.
Apologies the volume is pretty loud, ya might want to turn it down for this one.

Almost sounds like something is loose.

I pulled the plugs and put a corded ½” drill on the alternator nut and spun it counter clockwise to see if there was any noise. No unusual noises doing that. So nothing loose in there I guess.

Something sure doesn't sound right here, but I haven't a clue. Could these noises in fact be clutch basket springs as you suggested 2M?
Seems more noticeable as the revs drop, you can hear that ‘tink’, ‘tink’, tink’ sound

A loose, worn or broken spring?

 

[Mailman]

Wow you can really hear it in that video. It sure seems to be coming from under the clutch cover, every time you moved your camera down there it gets louder. Are you talking about these springs? I’ve sure seen enough of them broken.

 

[robinc]

Well that's what I'm wondering Bob, and I think what 2M was getting at. They were good when I put it back together after the starter gear fix in November?

Or one of these is wonky? I dunno.

 

[MaxPete]

Yup - my ear suggests that it is inside the clutch cover. Whatever it is - the sound is not regular but it rather sounds like something is flopping around loose inside.

Sorry Robin - but I’d recommend pulling the cover and tracking that noise down.

 

[robinc]

Yup, already figuring I've got to tip her over and pull the right cover Pete.
Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, however in saying that I would rather be ridin' than wrenchin' on this one right now.
But, not going to ride anymore till we have a look in there.

Curious as to what the guys might have to say as to why this is an issue now and never was before? This is definitely a 'new' noise.
I might have some time over the next couple of days and hopefully the gurus will tell me what to be looking for.

 

[Jim]

Sorry Robin - but I’d recommend pulling the cover and tracking that noise down.

Yeah... I tend to agree... for peace of mind if nothing else. Just outta curiosity, you're not running a lighter weight oil after the top end are you?

 

[robinc]

Nope Jim. 20W50 4 stroke motorcycle oil as always. Wish it weren't so..........

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yeah, I can hear it. Ok, Rob, try this.

While doing the exact same scenario:

Lean the bike to the right, rev, listen.
Lean the bike to the left, rev, listen.
Note any changes.

Pull-in the clutch lever, do your rev thing, listen.
Put it in gear, clutch still disengaged, do your rev thing, listen.

This would isolate the trans from the diag.
If the sound unchanged, it's confined to the primary area.
If it *does* change, may need to cook up another test...

 

[robinc]

Wow!! I just noticed, what started out a year ago as, ‘hey lookie here, got my old bike back on the road’, has turned into a thread of 1000 posts. Never saw that coming!

Thanks for those tests 2M, will try to get to them this aft.