Pesky Electric Starter and Boyer Problems

[peanut]

Cars do have safety devices. Can you start your car in anyplace other than park or neutral?
Leo

yes of course you can !

i have often resorted to starting old cars on the starter motor with first or second gear engaged when the clutch has failed.

I thought that we were referring specifically to various devices that prevent cranking the starter motor as on the xs650

 

[XSLeo]

Most cars don't have a side stand but on standard cars the do have to have the clutch pushed all the way down.
Leo

 

[panman142]

UPDATE: So today the new harness came in the mail from mikesxs. Got her all hooked up and I think something still isnt grounded right in the handle bars or something because the electric start only works when the bars are turned all the way to the left. Still no luck on starting it though.

So I decided to go back and check the obvious things and feel like a complete dumbass for not catching this the first time around. I don't know if my gauge was off or what happened but i re ran a compression test on it and the left cylinder is at 70 psi -_- right one sits around a hundo. So with almost everything else needed for the bike to be road legal there and the engine need re ringed I don't wanna sell it cause ill be shooting myself in the foot on a project.... again!!! Anyone know how bad the re ring job is and/or approximate cost
or does anyone want a new cafe project??

 

[Brian902]

Remember I told you to run a TEST ground wire from the battery ground post to you handle bars.

That was to see if you were missing a ground strap on the handle bar mounts.

The switch assembly has to be mounted to the bars and the bars not painted.

In other words, the switch assembly is making good contact with the bars. If you painted the switch, check for bare metal contact.

Then the bars must make good contact with the bar holders. No paint.

Then the ground strap attached to the bar holder bolts must make good contact with a know good ground or your test lead.

Just basic stuff.

Tackle one problem at a time and move on to the next.

OR, get a mechanic.

For some, that is the only solution.

 

[peanut]

I was afraid that the new loom wouldn't help things. Its such an obvious fault really I cannot understand why the op cannot sort it.

As you say Brian its pretty clear that when the bars are pulled over to a certain point that something somewhere is getting either a short to ground or a connection is being made its just a question of using a multimeter or a wire and a bulb and troubleshooting it.

The chances are its one of the connections inside the starter switch which is either loose or oxidised. When the bars are turned the wiring is stretched and pulls on the bad joint and causes a short or connection to be made. It cannot be the wiring itself because that has been replaced with no change . Try wiggling the switch wiring when you press the starter button

As Brian says just concentrate on one problem at a time until you solve it then move to the next problem

 

[XSLeo]

It sounds like you did as so many do and not get the bike running right before they cut it up. They spend a ton of cash on how it looks then can't make a bad engine run and have no cash to fix the engine.
End of rant.
$300 to $500 usually fixes the engine. Depends on just how bad the engine is worn. You need to tear it down. Take the cylinders and pistons to a machine shop and get them measured. Once you get them measured you use these measurements to determine the piston to cylinder clearances. If in spec a set of rings will fix things up.
If out of spec a rebore is needed. The measurements will tell you how much boring is needed. Once you figure that out order the new pistons and take them and the cylinders to the shop and they will bore the cylinders to match the new pistons.
There are other things to do while apart, some are just time with little cash outlay others take a bit more money.
Things like lapping the valves is easy to do and doesn't cost much.
A bit of port cleanup on the head is not hard to do.
Other things like new cam chain and guide cost a bit but need doing.
Your repair manual explains how to measure and determine piston to cylinder clearances but with out the right tools or skills to use them it is cheaper to have a shop do it. Good measuring tools cost a lot and for a single use it's not cost effective.
The book also tells how the check the crank and rods for excess wear.
Leo

 

[peanut]

if you have a compression reading as low as 70psi I would suspect either a head gasket leak or a burnt or non seating valve. Thats way too low to just be rings . You'd probably get a better reading than that with just a piston and an oil scraper lol.

I would recommend that you solve the other problems first then book the bike into a garage to get the compression and the valve settings checked properly. Chances are its just a non seating miss-set valve

 

[peanut]

Panman

I have re-read the entire thread again and my feeling is that it has now got too confusing for all of us.
This is one of the unfortunate side effects of having so many folk trying to help .

There are a lot of important questions that you have been asked by various members that have never been answered so none of us are really getting a full picture of the situation..Remember you are our eyes and ears.

I would recommend that we start from scratch with a series of tests done in a methodical sequence so that we will get some meaningful results from which to diagnose the various issues you have with your bike.

We are not going to quit on you until your bike is sorted but we need to start being a bit more methodical...do you agree ?

 

[panman142]

Haha yeah I feel it. I just read through all it on my lunch break. If you guys can give me a day or so i can get some free time on the laptop possibly tonight I might start a brand new thread and put the link in from this one will all the answers and tests and we can all be on the same page

 

[panman142]

And yeah I probably should've sorted out the starting issue earlier but I'm committed to the project no matter what it takes so in the end it doesn't really make a huge difference

 

[peanut]

I might start a brand new thread and put the link in from this one will all the answers and tests and we can all be on the same page

please do not start another thread ! it will just make things even more difficult for everyone flitting back and forth between various threads.

Just stick to this one.

Have you got a multi meter ?

 

[panman142]

OK, so after a long few days of taking care of things around the house and garage I finally got some time to get back to the bike!

A couple updates:

1.) I wired up the new harness so all connections are good and the connectors are half broke anymore.

2.) I ran the test wire from the neg. battery terminal to the bottom nut of the handle bar mount (on the underside of tripe t, effectively grounding the bars) that cleared up the electric start issue, so I needed to ground the bars. One problem down!

3.) Double checked the Boyer is wired up right, everything is good there and it is getting voltage too!!

4.) Talked to my buddy at work who has done a few Harleys in his time, he said he knows a good machine shop right down the road that did his harley heads for 40 bucks, I forget what all was included but I'm thinking thats where my head's heading once i tear it down. Maybe see if he can port them too to squeeze some extra juice out of it.

5.) I figured while I'm in the motor I mine as well do rings too, and have the cylinders checked out and make sure I don't have to have it honed. But I was reading the write up on mikesxs on his motor teardown and rebuild and when he installed his rings he said he used his hand and a screwdriver?!? Can anyone shed light on that? I've always used a ring compressor but those were all 8 cylinder engines

6.) Also I have read while I'm in the engine its a good idea to do cam chain and the front guide too? Would that be necessary with only 10,200 on the motor?

7.) Got the rear brake hooked up and functioning but when I went to install the front caliper the top bolt hole is off by about a half inch and wont line up. Tried some gentle pressure but figured I'd ask before I break something.

I think thats about all I have to say for now, If I missed something let me know. I was hoping I could take care of that top end rebuild quickly at the end of this month but I got set back $150 bucks for a speeding ticket yesterday so that pushed everything back a couple weeks

 

[panman142]

please do not start another thread ! it will just make things even more difficult for everyone flitting back and forth between various threads.

Just stick to this one.

Have you got a multi meter ?

Yes I do have a multi meter

 

[peanut]

A couple updates:

1.) I wired up the new harness so all connections are good and the connectors are half broke anymore.

2.) I ran the test wire from the neg. battery terminal to the bottom nut of the handle bar mount (on the underside of tripe t, effectively grounding the bars) that cleared up the electric start issue, so I needed to ground the bars. One problem down!
That shouldn't work there is still something wrong there . referring to my schematic you should have a R/W red /white live feed from the safety relay to the kill switch which then feeds the starter switch . From the starter switch the switch live feed goes to the starter solenoid to activate the starter. There should be no ground wire anywhere connected to the kill switch or the start switch unless you are using a non-standard switch ?


3.) Double checked the Boyer is wired up right, everything is good there and it is getting voltage too!!

4.) Talked to my buddy at work who has done a few Harleys in his time, he said he knows a good machine shop right down the road that did his harley heads for 40 bucks, I forget what all was included but I'm thinking thats where my head's heading once i tear it down. Maybe see if he can port them too to squeeze some extra juice out of it.

5.) I figured while I'm in the motor I mine as well do rings too, and have the cylinders checked out and make sure I don't have to have it honed. But I was reading the write up on mikesxs on his motor teardown and rebuild and when he installed his rings he said he used his hand and a screwdriver?!? Can anyone shed light on that? I've always used a ring compressor but those were all 8 cylinder engines

if you renew the rings, even with the same size rings, you'll need to hone the bores , if only to remove the glaze.

6.) Also I have read while I'm in the engine its a good idea to do cam chain and the front guide too? Would that be necessary with only 10,200 on the motor?

depends on when they were last replaced. The wearing surface is made of rubber which deteriorates over time so if the bike has stood for many years then yes its best to replace but judge that when you tear down

7.) Got the rear brake hooked up and functioning but when I went to install the front caliper the top bolt hole is off by about a half inch and wont line up. Tried some gentle pressure but figured I'd ask before I break something.

that doesn't make sense if the caliper came off of the same forks ? you sure its a front caliper ?

I think thats about all I have to say for now, If I missed something let me know. I was hoping I could take care of that top end rebuild quickly at the end of this month but I got set back $150 bucks for a speeding ticket yesterday so that pushed everything back a couple weeks

theres nothing that hurts worse than one of those. I'd sooner set fire to the money

 

[panman142]

theres nothing that hurts worse than one of those. I'd sooner set fire to the money

Ain't that the truth man!! Can't he cut a guy a break who was playing air drums to "home sweet home" in his crv?

 

[peanut]

Ain't that the truth man!! Can't he cut a guy a break who was playing air drums to "home sweet home" in his crv?

were you driving with your knees at the time lol?

well done for sorting all that out and getting this far. Nearly there I would say.
Just check the colour of the wires connected to your kill and start switch ...should be R/W and L/W

 

[panman142]

I was doin a little bit of knee driving haha. But yepp everythings coming along alright. Ill sort out this engine stuff pretty easily i assume. But any insight into why that caliper wont install right?

 

[peanut]

any insight into why that caliper wont install right?

you gotta show it who's boss Refitted mine a few weeks ago and I had to get a bit brutal with it lol