gilles
XS650 New Member
I am rebuilding my engine and have found one of the bushes worn in the little end of the con rods. Does anyone know where you can get these from or made?
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I don't think you can get them. The usual fix is a new or different rod in better shape. Don't know about having one made but I suppose it's possible. Unfortunately, to replace rods you have to split the crank. They're not a two piece bolt-on affair like on some motors.
I don't think the rod has bushings. The pins just goes through a hole bored in the small end.
Leo
Leo
gilles
XS650 New Member
ive found a company that makes bushes in india. I will try and find someone local first though. it lookslike its brass cause of the discolouration and wear.
Gilles, what kind of an engine are you rebuilding? The only bushings I've seen in these XS's were in aftermarket '256' rods.
Can you post an up-close pic?
Can you post an up-close pic?
rebel542
Old Timer
The XS650 connecting rod small end has a very thin brass colored coating from the factory. Even with low milage they will appear to be worn unevenly. You probably don't have a problem at all. Put it together and enjoy.
xs650dreamer
XS650 Junkie
some are saying anything above 25 worn theyre dont some are saying the coating was used to prevent carboning something to do with they didnt need to be hardened. so this if they are worn theyre done might be a myth
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
Biggest thing to watch for is axial play in the small ends. Some coating gone with no play in the wrist pin wouldnt worry me...but the rods on one crank i have have a ton of axial play in the small ends....alot.. suprised they arent broken. So it got new rods.
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By the book, with the pin oiled slip it into the rod end. Try to wiggle the pin up/down by pushing one end up while other end down.
If not much play then they are ok.
The book isn't very specific with a clearance on these.
Leo
If not much play then they are ok.
The book isn't very specific with a clearance on these.
Leo
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
And look for alot of discoloration on the wrist pins too. The one with alot of axial play had very blued pins.
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This is a cut/paste amalgam of crank-rod-wristpin specs from later XS650 service manuals. If you look at the bottom, at the rod small-end, and wristpin diameters, you'll see a 'range' of tolerances. From this, you can derive the min/max clearance range, which works out to 15 - 33 Microns (about 0.0006" - 0.0013". Engineering handbooks call this a 'drag fit' to a 'light drag fit'...
Attachments
Hey Guys,
Just want to post my recent experience with the piston pins on my '78 XS650. I'm in the process of doing a top end rebuild and while soaking the pistons to remove carbon and varnish, I placed the pistons -- complete with pins and rings -- into a warm solution (about 150*) of heavy detergent. This was needed, because the compression rings were stuck in their corresponding grooves and I needed to free things up. The process cleaned the pistons of varnish and crud, but only softened the carbon build-up on the piston crowns; which was easily removed with a wire brush. The pins, however, turned a dark grey/black color around the journal where the connecting rod attaches (center section of the pins). The darkened area was covered with what appeared to be a black, slimy paste which I proceeded to wipe clean. BIG mistake!!! The goo came off alright, but exposed a rather roughened area along the center surfaces of the pins. I was totally taken aback by this, as I had no idea the pins were coated and that this coating would come off when immersed in a warm/hot bath, such as I had just subjected the two pins to, during my attempt to clean these parts. Prior to me immersing these parts into the cleaning solution, these pins looked OK, nice and shiny with no signs of excessive wear -- one reason why I thought they were polished or hard chromed. In conclusion, I made a mess of it and I will be shopping for new pins to replace the ones I destroyed. I hope this is of some benefit. DON'T SOAK THE PINS IN HOT DETERGENT!!!!!!
Cheers,
Norman C
Just want to post my recent experience with the piston pins on my '78 XS650. I'm in the process of doing a top end rebuild and while soaking the pistons to remove carbon and varnish, I placed the pistons -- complete with pins and rings -- into a warm solution (about 150*) of heavy detergent. This was needed, because the compression rings were stuck in their corresponding grooves and I needed to free things up. The process cleaned the pistons of varnish and crud, but only softened the carbon build-up on the piston crowns; which was easily removed with a wire brush. The pins, however, turned a dark grey/black color around the journal where the connecting rod attaches (center section of the pins). The darkened area was covered with what appeared to be a black, slimy paste which I proceeded to wipe clean. BIG mistake!!! The goo came off alright, but exposed a rather roughened area along the center surfaces of the pins. I was totally taken aback by this, as I had no idea the pins were coated and that this coating would come off when immersed in a warm/hot bath, such as I had just subjected the two pins to, during my attempt to clean these parts. Prior to me immersing these parts into the cleaning solution, these pins looked OK, nice and shiny with no signs of excessive wear -- one reason why I thought they were polished or hard chromed. In conclusion, I made a mess of it and I will be shopping for new pins to replace the ones I destroyed. I hope this is of some benefit. DON'T SOAK THE PINS IN HOT DETERGENT!!!!!!
Cheers,
Norman C
Don't know what was put in your motor, Norton, but the OE pins were never coated.
Hi Grizld1,
I don't know either. If I were more computer literate, I would post photos of the pins in question -- not as I found them, but after I attempted to clean them. The pins I have, were original to my engine (factory OEM), not replacements of any sort, looked perfectly good, as I mentioned in my earlier post, but were rendered unserviceable after immersing them in the warm cleaning solution. It came as a complete surprise to me, as I had never seen anything of the sort in any other makes of motorcycle; and I have restored and repaired several dozen of them in the past. Was it corrosion under the surface? Who knows. But I saw no flakes of chrome or any other tell-tale sign of deterioration. I am simply reporting/sharing my disheartening experience with the failure of these parts. YMMV
Cheers,
Norman C
I don't know either. If I were more computer literate, I would post photos of the pins in question -- not as I found them, but after I attempted to clean them. The pins I have, were original to my engine (factory OEM), not replacements of any sort, looked perfectly good, as I mentioned in my earlier post, but were rendered unserviceable after immersing them in the warm cleaning solution. It came as a complete surprise to me, as I had never seen anything of the sort in any other makes of motorcycle; and I have restored and repaired several dozen of them in the past. Was it corrosion under the surface? Who knows. But I saw no flakes of chrome or any other tell-tale sign of deterioration. I am simply reporting/sharing my disheartening experience with the failure of these parts. YMMV
Cheers,
Norman C
To post pics, just look below where we write a response, see the Go Advanced button, this leads you to a page where you can do advanced things, like post pics.
Now scroll down to find the Manage Attachments button.
Click it. This brings up a window that has Browse buttons, these browse buttons take you to the pictures on your computer.
Select the pic and upload.
Below the browse buttons is a list of formats and the max size for each format. Resize your pics to these sizes for faster uploads.
Now on your pin problems, what detergent did you use. Some cleaners have chemicals that can adversely effect metals. Like toilet bowl cleaner turn alloy stuff black. If Left long enough the alloy dissolves.
There may be a chemical in your detergent that corroded your pins.
On engine parts I generally use kerosene as a cleaner. Cuts the crud but won't hurt the parts.
Leo
Now scroll down to find the Manage Attachments button.
Click it. This brings up a window that has Browse buttons, these browse buttons take you to the pictures on your computer.
Select the pic and upload.
Below the browse buttons is a list of formats and the max size for each format. Resize your pics to these sizes for faster uploads.
Now on your pin problems, what detergent did you use. Some cleaners have chemicals that can adversely effect metals. Like toilet bowl cleaner turn alloy stuff black. If Left long enough the alloy dissolves.
There may be a chemical in your detergent that corroded your pins.
On engine parts I generally use kerosene as a cleaner. Cuts the crud but won't hurt the parts.
Leo
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I use mineral spirits. It's fairly cheap by the gallon. My Dad always used straight gasoline. The cheapest solvent still today. Boooooooommmmmmm!
Hi Marlin,
back when they still put lead in the gas you had options!
1) The chance of a swift fiery death.
2) The certainty of long-time ill heath from lead poisoning.
FWIW, heating oil works OK for cleanup and it's less costly than gas because it ain't taxed near as high
nor does it have the weird additives they put in modern gas.
- Messages
- 683
- Reaction score
- 1,477
- Points
- 143
Hey, Fred,
I think my Dad chose gas to replace the benzene. LOL. He had one of those chrome foot pedal garbage cans half filled with gas and a metal collender for soaking parts above the sludge on the bottom. I'm still alive, (knock on wood).
Just curious, what do you call 87 octane gas? In the New England states it is called regular gas. In the southern states they call it unleaded.
I think my Dad chose gas to replace the benzene. LOL. He had one of those chrome foot pedal garbage cans half filled with gas and a metal collender for soaking parts above the sludge on the bottom. I'm still alive, (knock on wood).
Just curious, what do you call 87 octane gas? In the New England states it is called regular gas. In the southern states they call it unleaded.
Hi Marlin,
so your Dad took one small step in the direction of safety?
Amongst ourselves we call it :-
"that ethanol-laced rubbish those bastards sell these days instead of the good gas we used to get."
but at the pump we ask the attendant to "Fill it with regular, please."
There's no point in being rude to the guy, he only pumps the stuff and if you buy gas
at the Co-op he'll clean your windows, too.
- Messages
- 683
- Reaction score
- 1,477
- Points
- 143
As far as i know, only New Jersey has gas attendants that must pump your gas. In almost all other states, we pump our own.
