Poor decisions, another xs build

[AtoXS]

Part 1
So to property kick off this build I need to tell the story first. So I'd been looking for an XS to chop for a while but was never too serious since I didn't have a good garage for it and I already had a bike I was throwing money at (07 Bonneville). All that changed when I recently bought a house with an attached 2 car garage that promised a semblance of heat in the winter and found a bit of side work with the old man that the wife wouldn't have a say in how it was spent.
I should also mention that while I'm a handy guy and willing to try to do just about anything myself, this is my first ever ground up motorcycle build. I've done some gasket changes, wiring and carb rejetting, but this is a whole different story.


At the beginning of November the search had begun, but in a revelation that will surprise no one here, local searches turned up mostly empty. Either people thought they were sitting on gold or they just weren't selling in November. One day however I came upon a listing that sounded promising. The ad stated that a motorcycle shop was going out of business and for 20+ years it had specialized in XS650s with 8+ complete bikes, 10+ running motors and thousands of parts. I figured this was perfect so I called the number and started asking questions. The person on the other end of the phone told me he was actually listing for a friend who didn't internet but he was very familiar with the collection and was a motorcycle collector himself. So I asked him if all or most of the bikes were in running order. He stated that most of them probably needed a battery but we could fire some up. Next came the inevitable question, "How much is he looking to get for a running bike?" He said "$500" which in running condition I thought was a great deal so I arranged to meet up with this guy and owner of the bikes.
The location was a few hours away so I called 2 buddies to see if they wanted to go for a ride and maybe pickup a bike themselves since they were also in the market. They happily agreed and with a quick stop at the bank we were on our way.
2 1/2 hours later we finally pull up to the address given to us on a dirt road off a dirt road. What we see is a house that looks like it hasn't seen any upkeep in 20 years and a yard that hasn't been cut in probably twice that. Quickly this trip starts to seem like a bad idea as we see a guy walking toward that looked all beat to hell with rotting teeth and messed up skin, great a Methhead. The dude proceeds to tell us that the place where the bikes are is down the road a bit and we will have to follow them. (Them?)
A minute later another guy walks out of the house, he looks pretty much normal, no messed up teeth or skin, just long hair and a beard wearing a leather jacket. Ok, now I'm feeling a little better, I can deal with a grizzled old biker, then I see what's in his hands, multiple long ass pistol mags and what looks and sounds to be a coffee can full of ammo.
Methhead, "ok guys follow us, we're going to take you to the bikes." We got in the truck and immediately started to debate the merits of just blasting the opposite way and heading back home, but in the end curiously and a the threat of a wasted trip spurred us on.

I didn't realize just how much there is to tell of the story, I've even left out a few things so I'll just stop there and pick it up when I have a bit more time tonight. Stay tuned for Part 2 and some actually build photos later tonight.

 

[Vincenthdfan]

Oh this is gonna be good...

 

[nj1639]

Never judge a book by it's cover.....reminds me of the PO of the parts bike that I picked up in Eastern Kentucky........how many dogs can hide under a trailers porch?
Looking forward to the rest of the story.

 

[gggGary]

Sounds like a two bagger

 

[AtoXS]

Part 2

The second part of our story picks up with our heros following a beat ass pickup from dirt road to dirt road, then the safety of town only to quickly leave civilization to do another 10 miles on questionable roads, some that seemed little better than a herding path.
During our drive we had a lot of time to plan our strategy and possible escape plan and in turn the rolls we would play. Myself, since I had set up the deal I would be hence known as the Negotiator. Nick, who had a little Rugar 380 in his coat, took on the alias of the Gunner, (not that he or any of us would last long against Glocks with 30 round mags.) Ryan, who is a distance runner and can put down a sustained 6 minute mile was tasked with going for help while the Negotiator and Gunner acted as cannon fodder and was deemed the Runner.
The gray pickup finally slowed and turned onto a rutted driveway that lead up a hill. Ahead we saw a small single story home on the right and a workshop and wood shed on the left with a guy working a tractor between the two. The guy on the tractor didn't even seem to notice or care that we were there which we thought was quite odd since we had driven all this way to see him.
We get out of the truck and start walking toward the guy on the tractor, but are immediately stopped by Methead asking where we are going. "I thought we were here to talk to him about the XSs?", I said. "We are," he says, "but that isn't him, he doesn't live here, he lives further up the property." (WTF is going on, now there are 3 people involved and not one actually has anything to do with these bikes?) Methead points to the top of a hill at the end of the clearing on the property where we see an old yellow school bus next to a small even older tow behind camper. The two had a small roof that bridged the gap while surrounding the whole area was a junkyard full of shit.
As we reach the top of the hill I see some kind of sport bike on a make shift lift under a canopy in front of the school bus. (Great, so this is the "shop".) Behind it is stands the "shop" owner, Izzy. To describe Izzy as a crazy, backwoods, separatist might be too kind. Tucked into his duck boots were a pair of heavy wool pants covered in safety pins and secured by a piece of rope. Clipped to the waistband and pockets of the pants were not one, two or three, but four knives of varying sizes and a holstered pistol. (It turns out that he actually had a second gun in the small of his back that I couldn't see.) Around his neck looked like some kind of medicine bag that contained many things, including more bullets. Looking to his head he had a long unkempt beard, greasy, tangled hair and the craziest goddamn eyes I have ever seen.
Introductions were made and I finally got to take a good look at the XS graveyard and realized just how bad we'd been conned. The eight or so bikes were sitting on rotten pallets, only one had a gas tank, several were missing a least one wheel and all of them looked like they had been parked longer than they had run. (The Gunner actually saw a mouse climb out of the intake port of one of the engines.)
After the intros, Izzy immediately goes into sales model and says "so you guys want 3 bikes right? Pick 3 out and we'll get you set up with some extra parts." The 3 of us looked at each other and it was pretty obvious we are all thinking the same thing, no one wants anything to do with these POSs and we just want to get the hell out with our skins. I finally break the silence and tell him, "honestly, these are all a bit more work than we wanted, we kind of expected complete, running bikes." Izzy a little more intensely this time, starts showing us a few extra parts he has lying around including a 21"dirt bike wheel and a new Metzeler Marathon to go with it and says, "look, just pickup something you like and we'll find all the parts you need in the shop (the bus) because THIS IS HOW YOU BUILD CHOPPERS KIDS." (This line got repeated probably 20 times on the ride home so it's worth highlighting here.)
Again, mostly silence from us, then Izzy says,"what do you guys expect to get for $800, a bike in perfect condition?" At this point I"m starting to get more pissed than nervous and ask what happened to the $500 for a running bike. Izzy looks at Methead and they proceed to have a heated talked away from us. Izzy comes back and says, "fine $500 then for a bike." Annoyed me, "sorry but these just aren't in the condition we expected for the price, I think we'll have to pass." Izzy makes one more push for a sale, but this time leaves the price open to negotiation after I find something I like.
For the first time I actually start seriously considering his offer, not just because I think I might be able to live with the crazy purchase, but that I get to live by making a purchase from a crazy. The first bike I look at, has some extended forks, raked trees and 3-4 risers, the tubes on forks are pretty rusted, although I completely missed that at the time. The bike has no tank, carbs or exhaust. I go to kick it, but no luck, it's stuck, big shock. The next best bike I look at has carbs and an exhaust, trees but no forks or a front wheel. When I try to kick that one, the pedal immidiatley goes to the floor. "Just a busted spring, cheap fix" Izzy says. He tells me to hold on a sec and runs to his shop (the bus) and grabs some tools to pull the side cover off to turn the engine by hand. Sure enough it does turn and sounds like it's got compression, not that sound means shit without a compression test, but that wasn't happening in the field.
Ok these are the 2 best bikes here so if any kind of deal was to be struck, it had to be on these. After a bit of back and forth I gave him his $500, but I took both bikes, the 21" aluminum drum dirt bike wheel and the new Metzeler to mount on it.
With the deal done the guy on the tractor came up the hill and helped load the bikes into the back of the truck since they weren't exactly rollers.
As we were walking toward the truck to get the hell out of there, Izzy called to us to come back, wanted to show us something. (Great, just when we thought we were going to make it out alive.) He runs into his house (the tow behind trailer) and retrieves a couple of self proclaimed sniper rifles to show the Gunner. Somewhere during the last 30 minute's exchange Izzy had asked our feelings on guns which the Gunner mentioned a feigning interest just to break the silence. Before we could leave Izzy made him handle, exam and comment on each gun in turn. (The Gunner would later have nightmares about leaving his prints on a gun owned by a crazy separatist.)
The ride home actually pasted rather quickly as we examined and retold the story to ourselves and to our wives and girlfriends who had been trying to reach us since we had been out of cell coverage for several hours.

So that's the backstory. I've been typing more today than I have in a long time and there are bound to be lots of errors and tenses improperly used that I will try to clean up tomorrow, but it's late and I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I'll actually post up some photos of the build progress and where I'm at now, but I'll leave this for tonight

 

[Lester]

Great stroy.... looling forward to the build.
PS loved fingerprints bit.... LMAO

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yeah, that's a great story! Glad you're writing it and not 'Runner'.

Wonder what that place looks like on 'google maps'.

Them boys got a hell of a sales technique goin' on up there...

 

[AtoXS]

Yeah, that's a great story! Glad you're writing it and not 'Runner'.

Wonder what that place looks like on 'google maps'.

Them boys got a hell of a sales technique goin' on up there...

I actually tried looking for the area on the map once and again today, but there is just so much open land there and we got turned around so many times that I didn't have any luck finding it. I think if I ever pass through that area again I could recognize the main road we got back on. If I find that I think I could trace my sets back on a map.

 

[AtoXS]

So here is a better look at the bikes once I got them home in a little better light. They look a little better, but not much. The tank in the one photo didn't come with the deal, I got that for xmas, but it's the only photo I have of that bike atm.

 

[AtoXS]

So after a little work I was finally able to strip one of the bikes down to a frame and motor and after a bit more work I got the motor into an engine stand. This wasn't fun alone.

 

[AtoXS]

The plan all along was to hardtail this bike. I wanted something a bit different than the standard TC Bros frame so I started searching. Originally I was planning on going with the David Bird looped tail, but then I found the build by Eddie at 76 Fab here and on Chop Cult. The tail was really unique and started getting me thinking about a route to take. After talking to Eddie a bit I ended up pulling the trigger and the waiting game began. While waiting for the tail to arrive I decided I might as well see what's up with the motor. An initial compression test wasn't very promising, only 85-90 per side. I then found a post here about someone cleaning out the valve guides with with a gun cleaning kit. Well some PB Buster, penetrating oil and a bit of cleaning later and I got some much more promising number, about 117 on each side, I could live with that.
Also on a positive note, it turns out that old Lizzy was wrong about the kicker return spring. It wasn't busted, the kicker just wasn't bolted down well so it just spun on the shaft. Things are starting to look up.
To this day I still haven't pulled the sump and oil filter which will ultimately tell the tale of this motor. Hopefully I'll be doing that today or tomorrow.
Ace is very happy to be included in the build, you'll probably see him ham it up more in the future.
Ok more to come later, I've got to actually accomplish something today.

 

[AtoXS]

Ok been putting off picture updates so here goes.
While waiting for frame I built a work table to build the bike on out of mostly scrap wood someone was trying to give away on craigslist about a mile from me, I think it turned out pretty good.
Also while waiting for the frame I snagged on a set of shaved forks for cheap here which I had to grab since my tubes were trashed plus the hard work was already done.

 

[AtoXS]

Got the frame back from Eddie at 76 Fab, the welds look great and the seat is pretty unique although it's a bit skinny for my ass and leaves a lot of the frame exposed so it might get replaced with something bigger in the future.

 

[AtoXS]

With the frame back I figured I could get a full roller going so I pressed some All Balls bearings in and went to mount up the forks and trees but I didn't like how ugly the top clamp was so I figured I would do something about it. It's not perfect but I think it looks a lot better.

 

[AtoXS]

My next step was to mount up my 16" stock rear and 21" dirt bike wheel. After comparing axles I realized that this is going to be a tougher fix than I thought. The stock xs axle is 17mm, but the axle on the hub is 12 mm so this is quite a problem I haven't quite worked out. I looked into milling the hub and drum, changing bearings, pressing spacers to down size and there is really no good option that is cost effective other than having a custom axle turned to fit the hub and flare out to fit the forks. I'm not a huge fan of running a 12mm axle, but I'm not sure what else to do and save this wheel, but I figure if the wheel had one before ti couldn't be that unsafe. If anyone has any ideas I'm more than happy to hear them. Currently Spidr over at Chop Cult who is one of the Greasy Dozen builders is checking out the numbers and photos I sent him and will be turning and axle to make this thing work.

 

[AtoXS]

While waiting to figure what's going on with the wheel I pulled the starter off, (this bike will be kick only) and pulled the oil filters. There is the standard hole in the sump and the secondary filter had a fair amount of metal and plastic stuck to it, the drain plugs just have some metal past stuck to them. From what I understand this is pretty normal and is just the cam chain guide wear. I put a magnet on it and nothing really sticks that isn't helped by oil, it all looks like aluminum. I think I"m safe with this motor as a runner with some new gaskets, cam chain and guide but I would like to hear what others have to say. My goal is to get the motor running decent this year with the least amount of work and money . Next winter I plan to do a full tear down and rephase/big bore hop up, but with a full build, the motor is going to have to wait if I want the chop on the road this year.

 

[AtoXS]

I tossed the wheels on last night just to see how it would look. I still need to get the front wheel sorted, but can't do that until I drill out the drum to get some more accurate measurements for the spacers and sleeves for the hub.

 

[fredintoon]

My next step was to mount up my 16" stock rear and 21" dirt bike wheel. After comparing axles I realized that this is going to be a tougher fix than I thought. The stock xs axle is 17mm, but the axle on the hub is 12 mm so this is quite a problem I haven't quite worked out. I looked into milling the hub and drum, changing bearings, pressing spacers to down size and there is really no good option that is cost effective other than having a custom axle turned to fit the hub and flare out to fit the forks. I'm not a huge fan of running a 12mm axle, but I'm not sure what else to do and save this wheel, but I figure if the wheel had one before ti couldn't be that unsafe. If anyone has any ideas I'm more than happy to hear them. Currently Spidr over at Chop Cult who is one of the Greasy Dozen builders is checking out the numbers and photos I sent him and will be turning and axle to make this thing work.

Hi Ato,
well, the adventure alone is worth what you paid for the bikes so you got them for free, right?
The photos show the wheel's original 12mm axle is too short so you will need a longer one anyway.
Just maybe the bearing catalogs will have bearings with the same OD and width and a bigger bore, (14mm or even 16mm perhaps?) but such a bearing will have to have smaller balls and hence the load capacity will be less so I don't see that as a good option.
I reckon have your buddy turn a right length 12mm axle out of good steel, with the same size fat end as an XS650 axle and a 12mm x 17mm aluminum spool to adapt the new axle's threaded end to the hole through the XS650 fork.
And yeah, the 12mm axle worked OK for the 200lb dirt bike it came off but even a chopped XS650 gotta weigh twice that.
OTOH, you won't be bouncing through rocks with a chopper so the 12mm axle won't see the same shock loading but ride careful anyway, eh?

 

[AtoXS]

I guess I should have elaborated on the axle. The plan now is to stay with the stock axle and make the hub work. Stock the hub 12IDx32OD and 12IDx37OD. Looking through the bearing list you can find a 17x30 and 17x35 so the plan now is to have a few 2mm sleeves made and press those in so I can use the stock axle and just make spacers for the rest. The only other real mod to the hub is that the drum is going to have to be drilled out to the proper size.

 

[fredintoon]

I tossed the wheels on last night just to see how it would look. I still need to get the front wheel sorted, but can't do that until I drill out the drum to get some more accurate measurements for the spacers and sleeves for the hub.

Hi Again Ato,
nah, apart from teardown, cleanup, bearing check and repack, you leave that hub alone.
The best easiest fix is a custom axle.
Re-thinking my previous post, use a length of 12mm drill rod with a thread at each end and make appropriately sized aluminum spool pieces to adapt both ends to the hole sizes through the XS650 fork sliders.