Possible to test the safety relay?

Focusinprogress

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So, I've found that having my "safety relay" as labeled on the wiring diagram plugged in...blows a fuse....

SO, I unplugged it, and with the ignition on tested both sides of the connector for continuity on each pin.

Here's what I found:

on relay side I have continuity on both red w/ white tracer, and on red w/yellow tracer

on harness side, I have continuity on ONE red/white tracer, the black(expected), and blue....

I know something isn't right here....just need to figure out WHAT.

can anyone shed some light here?

Thanks in advance!!!!
 
bump, so I don't know whats going on now....but when I posted this thread everything worked fine with the safety relay being unplugged except for the coils not getting power....so I go out to the bike today to rebuild/jet the carbs for the pods and get that all buttoned up, and I go to turn the key and now it's popping the fuse again....not right away like before, it's getting hot and the neutral light will be dim during this until the fuse gets TOO hot and pops. Lasts for about as long as it takes to count to 8 or 10.

I'm totally baffled.

The battery's positive lead SHOULD have continuity, RIGHT? because it's grounded as well....

and so the red wire off the starter solenoid that provides constant power, should ALSO have continuity, RIGHT? (it does, this is the one popping a fuse)....
 
bike is a 1979 special. I personally have only cut three wires to extend them for routing to fit my hardtail conversion. I do not know the history of the harness, but I do know that there is no fusebox as shown in the diagram I found on here that I've been working with

View attachment 22984

There IS however, a single in-line 15A glass tube fuse on the red wire coming right off the starter solenoid....the wire that goes up to the key switch....

whats strange is this bike was a runner/rider when I took it apart, and I also had it running just a week ago, and now it's doing this....with no modifications or changes between.

when it was popping fuses the other night, I unplugged all of the componants and then plugged them in one by one until the fuse popped....which is how I narrowed it down to the safety relay. Then I did continuity tests to both sides of the connector which I posted the results of above. Without the safety relay connected, my signals and my rear running and brake lights all worked properly, horn honked, etc. just no coil power. Only other thing I noticed was that when NOT depressing a brake lever, the light up on the dash for the brakes was blinking constantly instead of being off
 
save yourself heartache and time. Build your own harness. I wasted days of my life trying to sort out 30yr old rat nest harnesses untill Id finally had enough. Youve got three circuits tackle them one at a time. I begin with the ignition, then charging and finally the lighting. Score a handfull of breakers, spool of 18 ga wire, some switches and a soldering iron you'll be golden. Its better not to reuse the wire from your old harness.
 
I'm at the point now where I'm at a total loss of what to do with this harness, because it's obvious to me that there is a power wire grounded out somewhere and I can't seem to track it down....

I REALLY don't/didn't want to, but I might have to go ahead and make a harness from scratch....simplified, using these diagrams:

xs650-diagram1_zps589c9ae6.jpg


xs650-diagram2_zpsca718417.jpg
 
If you look in the tech section at the wiring diagrams it looks like the fuse box started in 78 so yours should have one. I can tell you that the earlier bikes that did have a single fuse used a 20A.
 
Those diagrams look ok. I assume the thing on the left is the headlight and gauges. If so you might want to add a dimmer switch so you can have both high and low beams.
As far as the wiring your PO could have built the bike using parts from several years. Your harness could have com from an earlier bike.
Leo
 
I spent a few hours on the harness last night and discovered the regulator went bad on me. I swapped it out for a spare and got the bike running, only to discover that I wasn't charging or getting a headlight. I started with the test dangling a wrench next to the cover for the stator and turn the ignition on to see if it draws in the wrench and it didn't....so I popped the cover off and noticed I somehow broke the contact mount during some assembly/disassembly.

rode it up the road once though....just gotta find parts to repair the stator now.
 
Just what part got broke? The brush holder? If so Mike's sells them.
The 70-79 is different than the 80 up. Besure to get the one that fits.
Leo
 
I borrowed the brush holder off a friend's XS650....and then followed this guide I found on another xs650 forum via a google search for charging system troubleshooting....

I've put my results to each step in red.

"
This is taken from one of Curly's posts, and is one of the best troubleshooting guides we have seen:

1. First charge your battery to at least 12.5-12.7V. done

2. Find a really thin feeler gauge like 0.010" or 0.015" and hold it pointed down about a half inch away from your generator cover on the engine. Now turn the key on. If your regulator and rotor are working the feeler gauge should slap the case when the magnetic field is created in the rotor. If nothing happens or the magnetic effect seems really weak then go on to the next test. I did not get any magnetic effect

3. On the solid state regulator models all you need to do is locate the green wire at the regulator plug and make a jump from it to ground. That bypasses the regulator and allows full battery current to flow through the brushes out of the rotor through the green wire to ground. That causes the rotor to make a stronger magnetic field which in turn causes more current to flow in the stator. If your battery terminal charge voltage jumps up to 14.5VDC when you rev the engine then the regulator or the ground connection for the regulator is your problem. I still did not get any magnetic effect when grounding the green wire meant to connect to the regulator

4. If nothing changes then it's time to check the voltage on the brown wire (It may be black on your bike) at the positive brush with the key on. It should be very close to battery voltage. The brown wire that feeds the brush gets its power from the brown wire at the keyswitch. Check the voltage at the three wire keyswitch connector while it's plugged in by probing from the backside of the connector with the key on. Again you should see the same voltage as the battery. If you do get full battery voltage there then repair the brown wire circuit between the switch and the positive brush. If not then the switch is either bad or the red wire from the battery is not passing the full current like it should. If that's the case then keep going back along the red wire, through the main fuse until you find the source of the voltage drop. No more than 0.3 VDC drop is acceptable. I receive battery voltage at the brown wire on the connector for the key switch

5. Once you have full voltage to the positive brush re-check the charging voltage to see if you're getting 14.5 VDC or better at the battery when revved to about 3,000 rpm. If you still don't have a charge then do the feeler gauge test again. If it slaps the case your rotor and regulator are working and you can go on to stator checks. If not then pull the brushes out of their holder and use an ohm meter to test the rotor. Measure the rotor first by touching the tester leads to the brass slip rings. Then take one lead and touch anywhere on the engine that's not painted. For the first test you should see between 5 and 5.5 ohms between the slip rings. On the second test between one slip ring and the engine you should see infinity on the meter. Any reading lower than 5 ohms on the first test or less than infinity on the second test means you have a bad rotor. Replace it. If it tests good then go on to the stator checks.
If I pull out the brushes and test ohms at the rings, I get the 5.5ohms between them, and "overload" on the test of each ring to motor....however, if I put the brushes back in and test ohms from the contacts at the back of them while mounted into the holder, I get 25.5ohms

6. At the stator wire connector locate the three white wires. Use a voltmeter set on the AC scale to test the three possible connections between the white wires by probing from the backside of the connector. (The connector should be plugged togeter for this test) With the engine running at idle you should see about 10.5 to 11 AC volts (Not DC) on each of the three combinations of white to white that you make. If you get a very low reading on one or two legs then something is grounding your stator. If you have high readings on any of the legs (i.e. 16-18VDC) then your rectifier is bad.
I get dead 0.00 across all three possible connections on the white wires while running


7. If you got low readings on any of the stator voltage checks then unplug the connector and use your ohm meter to check the stator windings. Check the resistance between the three fabric covered wires (stator side) on the side of the connector. On each white to white connection you should read about 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms. If you get a very low reading on all of the three combinations find the single Yellow wire connector and disconnect it. Re-check your stator resistance. If the readings are now good then the yellow wire or safety relay are shorted. If there is one or more that still read low after disconnecting the yellow then check those legs by touching one lead to ground with the other on the white wire. You should see a very high Kilo ohm or infinite reading. If you get a low resistance check the stator lead pigtail to see if it is pinched by the cases or rubbed through on the frame. If that looks ok then your stator is shorted and needs to be replaced.
Checking the windings, I got 2.9-3.3ohms on all three possible connections, whether or not the yellow wire was plugged in

And that's about it except to say that dirty connections and worn brushes account for most of the charging system problems. Good Luck you'll find the problem.


After doing all of this, I'm fairly confused..... I can't figure out if my regulator is bad, or if the stator is bad, or if the safety relay is bad.

UGH. I just want this to work.....it did just a little over a week ago and now that I have it on the road it's messed up again. I HATE ELECTRICAL. I am tempted to pull the trigger on a PMA and a "chopper harness kit from TC Bros, but this was supposed to be a budget build and I have less than $500 invested including purchase of the bike so far.
 
Correct me if I am wrong fellers, but doesn't the yellow wire from the stator go to the safety relay and do what it says (for safety) send power to the safety relay as soon as the starter is turning the crank, so the safety relay cuts the power to the starter.

If there is a short, it could very well be one of the three metal screws on the stator (brushes) that should be replaced by nylon 4mm.

Anlaf
 
Also, if I understand correctly, one of the two wires on the brush holder should be getting power from the brown wire coming off the switch? I tested for voltage to either contact while the key was on and didnt get voltage....I tested for continuity to the frame and either contact as well, and the meter was showing numbers but not beeping.
 
new discovery....after browsing some other troubleshooting threads, I've figured out that the previous owner put in a reg/rec combo unit from an 80+ xs650 with TCI.....and simply connected only the rec wires and retained the stock regulator. I was blowing fuses that way all of a sudden, and without the regulator plugged was NOT blowing fuses....so after chasing down all my wires and not finding any obvious issues, I assumed the regulator was bad, and noticed the brown and green wires on the rec/reg combo looking for a home....and assumed I could just connect the green and brown to the harness going to the stator assembly.....so that's what I did....but then everything seems to work besides headlight and charging.

It has come to my attention, that in doing this I also need to swap three screws from the brush contacts to nylon 4mm screws to un-ground the brushes if I am understanding correctly. Could this really be all that is causing my lack of headlight and lack of charging?
 
If you have a 1980 to 83 type rec/reg, and a 1979 engine, then you have to unground the right (inner) brush. Nylon screws can be used after removing the steel screws. Once ungrounded, run 13 volts + from the brown wire on the load side of the ignition switch to the inner brush. The rec/reg green wire connects to the left (outer) brush.
 
There are four nylon screws at the brushes assembly on the stator-rotar assembly. The screws are arranged in a square - replace the top two and the bottom right with nylon screws of the same length and thickness (4mm) as those you remove.

With a custom assembly the only reason you won't need to do this if there is a safetly relay at the end of the yellow wire. If that safety relay is not doing its job (electrically speaking) then the problem is found.

Anlaf
 
There are four nylon screws at the brushes assembly on the stator-rotar assembly. The screws are arranged in a square - replace the top two and the bottom right with nylon screws of the same length and thickness (4mm) as those you remove.

With a custom assembly the only reason you won't need to do this if there is a safetly relay at the end of the yellow wire. If that safety relay is not doing its job (electrically speaking) then the problem is found.

Anlaf

so if I'm not seeing headlight or charging, then the safety relay is no good? is it possible to delete this componant?
 
I ran outside for 5mins before work and disconnected the safety relay, and made a jumper from the red/yellow to the blue/black, and turned the key....HAZZAH I got headlight. jumped on the kickstarter and she fired right up. I didn't have time to go any further and see if I was charging, but I'll give that a whirl later on.
 
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