Possible to test the safety relay?

I'm glad I have headlight again, but I still fear I may not be charging. I know that I have battery voltage at the brown wire where the key switch plugs in, however I do not seem to have proper voltage (only reading 00.1v) at the frontward brush contact at the stator. I am going to have to chase that wire AGAIN. The last time I had the harness all unwrapped I was chasing a short with the brown wire, which got into a nest where 5 or 6 brown wires were all coming and going connected everywhere with each other and such. I've ordered a package of the 4mm nylon screws from Mcmaster-carr online, should be here tomorrow or wednesday to give that idea a shot. I also took the stator out and verified that I have no cracks/breaks/worn insulation on the wires.

I have literally lost sleep, laying in bed at night trying to understand what's going on with this thing!
 
Focusinprogress said:
I'm glad I have headlight again, but I still fear I may not be charging. I know that I have battery voltage at the brown wire where the key switch plugs in, however I do not seem to have proper voltage (only reading 00.1v) at the frontward brush contact at the stator. I am going to have to chase that wire AGAIN. The last time I had the harness all unwrapped I was chasing a short with the brown wire, which got into a nest where 5 or 6 brown wires were all coming and going connected everywhere with each other and such. I've ordered a package of the 4mm nylon screws from Mcmaster-carr online, should be here tomorrow or wednesday to give that idea a shot. I also took the stator out and verified that I have no cracks/breaks/worn insulation on the wires.

I have literally lost sleep, laying in bed at night trying to understand what's going on with this thing!
Click to expand...

Once you have the right (inner) brush ungrounded, and the brown wire connected to that brush, you should measure voltage at that brush, that is very close to battery+ voltage. The left (outer) brush will have a varying voltage, from approximately +1 volt to +6 volts.
 
Well, it won't be doing it on purpose, there will be some poor connection, etc in there.

Have you eliminated the rotar itself by taking readings between the two bands (copper).
Then eliminate the stator by unpluging the connector with holding the white wires and taking readins across them in combination (1 & 2, 1 & 3, 2 & 3). If you get healthy rEdings there move on to eliminate the obvious brushes connections.
The green wire goes into the connector to meet the green going into the rectifier. You will either have a black (no, wait, the later model post 79 will definitely b e brow) or brown going into the connection NOTEat this point I join the brown to the brown coming from the rectifier with a 2 into 1 connector - that is, one brown in from the rectifier splits into one to the stator and one on to go on to another 2 into 1; the first split goes one way to the ignition switch, the other to the fuse box.

Don't unwrap until you have checked these functions and connections.

I have a circuit breaker which I loop between the battery and the ignition switch - just a few pennies. Get one, or have some fuses handy. Remove the engine inspection cover (leftside, small hatch) and turn on your ignition. put a screw driver on the central hub and angle it until the metal comes into contact with the brushes housing - if you get sparks (shorts) you have an unwelcome ground. Nylon screws, the only way forward, particularly if the safety relay is not doing its job.

Is the safety relay linked to the yellow wire coming from the stator? It should be.

Anlaf
 
that's what I wanted to hear! thanks! usually Mcmaster is only 1 or 2 days max on delivery so here's hoping it's charging by thursday at the latest, I've spent over a year on this bike in my spare hours here and there and I'm just dying to RIDE it.
 
when I tested ohms between the two rings on the rotor, I had 5.4ohms or so. I had no voltage on the outer brush, and the inner brush when tested HAD continuity....

The safety relay has now been unplugged and I jumped the wires needed for getting the headlight working.

I know that I have more than two "splits" as you mention....and I also don't have a fusebox (came to me this way). I have only a fuse on the supply power wire as the pre '78's did. There's a fair chance I have a hodgepodge of all different year XS parts....from my research, I think the previous owner had a pre-78 harness installed, with only the rectifier wires of the 80+ combo unit connected to use the 80+ rectifier, and retained the remaining stock electrical componants.
 
I would ditch that newer rectifier and build this $6 one .....

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/3473/rectifier-replacement-6-58

It's proven to work well for the '79 and older models, no rewiring, no plastic screw BS. Just build it, install it, and go. For the voltage regulator, I think the originals are fine and they're adjustable if need be. But if I was looking to replace it, I would install an automotive VR-115. Again, a simple "plug and play". You just need to change the plug to match your harness.
 
5twins said:
I would ditch that newer rectifier and build this $6 one .....

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/3473/rectifier-replacement-6-58

It's proven to work well for the '79 and older models, no rewiring, no plastic screw BS. Just build it, install it, and go. For the voltage regulator, I think the originals are fine and they're adjustable if need be. But if I was looking to replace it, I would install an automotive VR-115. Again, a simple "plug and play". You just need to change the plug to match your harness.
Click to expand...

Thanks 5twins (hey I sold you some yamaha gas tank badges about a year ago!)

I saw those options mentioned a few times here, and those are definitely what I plan to replace my parts with if these plastic screws don't do the trick.
 
I a 20 amp fuse (battery to red from rectifier) and four other fuses on my set-up 1st to headlight and that circuit, 2nd to the horn and brake light switch, 3rd to kill switch (before coil) and 4th before the ignition timing digital box. 1 & 2 are lights (a discrete circuit), 3 & 4 are part of the charging/ignition circuit. Get a small 4-fuse box with four 10 amp auto fuses (plug in type). That circuit breaker eases the pain when fault finding.

Unplug the light circuit, and its down to something shorting on the brown wire (charging/ignition circuit). I see 5twins is all in favour of a new rectifier, and if he recommends something then look into it.

I hope this helps - by the way, does everything in the brushes housing look in decent condition.

Anlaf
 
the rings looked dirty, so I cleaned them with some electric parts spray and a scotts shop towel. The outer brush is almost an 1/8" shorter than the inner brush. I plan to buy new brushes, but wanted to try a local guy's little cycle shop first before ordering online....and he's not open sundays/mondays so I'll stop tomorrow....I like trying to support local business, esp when it's a guy that's been doing it for over 50yrs and deserves it.
 
THANKS EVERYONE HERE FOR YOU HELP, SUPPORT, AND GUIDANCE!

with your help and some time today, I discovered that the safety relay is actually two separate relays, one to shut down the electric starter quickly once the motor is running, and the other to supply headlight power once the bike is running......this device apparently is a common point of failure, and you can REMOVE it. This delete's the ability to electric start, and you can make a jumper between two contacts so the headlight is always on when the ignition is on (you can add a switch to the jumper for on/off duties which I'll probably do). At this point, I had a hunch that maybe my regulator WASN'T bad, that the relay was tripping the fuse....so I plugged it back in and tried the slap test again....and BAM, I had magnetism at the stator! I called checko to tell him the news and he shot right over.....So then I fired the bike up and he tested AC volts at the rectifier, which all checked out, and then checked voltage at the battery.....HAZZAH I was charging!

So I went to rip it up the street and checko shot video with his iphone. SO GLAD this is done.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/focu...4a166.mp4.html
 
On your 79, the stater can work without the safety relay, I don't reccomend it though. There are two red/white wires on the safety relay. One is power from the fuses, one is power out the the stater relay. Jumper the two red/whites together.
This bypasses the safety relay and the e-start will work.
The reason they use the safety relay is so when the engi ne starts the power to the stater gets turned off so the engine won't over run the gears that hook the starter to the engine. You do this too many times and the gears get damaged and then you won't want to use the e-start because of the noise and it won't engage the engine.
It may take awhile buit it will happen.
Leo
 
Most any parts store has lighting relays, they make them with 4 or 5 prongs. The 4 prong turn on a circuit. You want a 5 prong, they turn a circuit off as well as one on.
Another place to get them is at an auto salvage yard. One that lets you pull the parts your self. Under most car hoods you will find many of these relays. They use them to control the A/C as well as fuel pumps, lighting, ABS, lots of thimngs.
To use hook the yellow wire from the stator to 85, ground 86. Run the red/white with power on it from the fuses to 30, hook the other red/white wire to 87A. these numbers are on the relay next to the prongs.
Leo
 
I usually pick up several every time I'm there. One more thing some cars use a smaller version of the relay. It's the same height, same width but only half as deep.
Smoe have two wide prongs with three narrow prongs, others have 5 very narrow prongs. They all work the same. You won't find sockets that fit them like the standard relays. Easy to solder right to the prongs.
I went to get two wheels with good tires for my van and as always a half dozen relays. They only charged me for the wheels.
Leo
 
I was thinking of doing a PAMCO and PMA kit anyway. The bike is for my lady and kick starting really isnt an option. If i get these do they bypass the relays. I would think they would still be needed.
Rob
 

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