Repaint dilemma

[gentlemanjim]

I painted my XSR (as I call it) XS650 with Duplicor factory match spray it went on beautifully, clear coated, let it cure for a week color sanded w/1200 buffed and polished perfect.

The issue is a little gasoline splahed on the paint and softened and ruined the finish. I contacted Duplicolr and was told the paint is lacquer and it is not gas proof. I asked about wheel paint thinking is more durable and he said it enamel and not gas proof. I said cars have been painted with lacquer and enamel since day one and I never heard of gasoline runing the finish. He says that just how it is in other words FY.

Now I have to repaint, but with what?

Has anyone else had issues with their painting? And what did you use that was resistant gasoline?

After seeing Gordonscott's work(my other twin) I'm in serious need for the level of finish

 

[PetesPonies]

You just don't understand paint chemistry. What you were told is exactly right. Lacquer never chemically cures. Factory paints ( lacquer hasn't been used since the early 80s in GM cars. Ford never used it )were baked, which sped up the drying process. But gasiline will effect those paints and it always does. The quality of the lacquer, how long it has been painted etc will have a small effect as well. Enamel, as in a spray can, also never cures. Automotive enamels have been mixed with a hardener that chemically hardens them for 30 years or so now. The factory heat cured them. They are much more resistance to chemicals once in a heat booth or have had the chemical hardener added to them. Paint in a spray can is low quality and it cannot have the hardener added to it or it would cured right in the can. Today, most better paints are urethanes. They too have a hardener added to them and is a "modified" AE in chemistry ( sorta ). So the bottom line is, you must keep gasoline away from your paint if you are going to do a spray can paint job. If you want to know more, just ask. I was giving the quick answer here. Obviously understanding everything is a lot more involved. I am a restorer and I have been a teacher. So I understand the process . . so just ask.

 

[jetero41]

Eastwood.com offers 2 part epoxy clear in a CAN. From the little I know this is the product that I chose to clear coat my tank. Expensive at $20.00/can +,- and only a 24 hr shelf life once broken (an interior vial that gets broken to activate ).
I own a can but did not use it as a bud offered to apply automotive epoxy clear for nothing, so......
Good Luck

 

[Grinder]

If you have access to spray equipment I like the basecoat/clearcoat systems. They go on about as easy as lacquer but hold up much better. You can sand out imperfections in the base and clear just as with lacquer. The downside is by the time you buy the paint, hardner, reducers etc. it can be costly.

 

[kent_in_kc]

Ditto all the above. For a bike you can buy small quantities of urethane automotive paint. A quart is more than enough to paint even a full size cruiser. That's about the smallest qty you can buy. You would also need (a quart) of clear urethane (thus the term two-stage, color and clear). They will also sell you the hardener and reducer. It all air dries in less than 24 hours so you don't need to bake it (I park the bike in the hot sun to final cure it).

The better auto parts stores like O'Reilly's are starting to sell these pro quality automotive urethanes now. Check around. Expect to spend $200+. If you don't have an HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) paint gun you can get a decent one cheap at Harbor Freight or maybe the auto parts store. Or rent a gun and compressor. Get a respirator too, that stuff is hard on human lungs.

Another option is epoxy paint. For some reason urethane and epoxy are hard to find in aerosol although VHT does sell black epoxy and you can get white and biscuit epoxy appliance paint. There is some debate whether aerosol epoxy is 'real' epoxy since it is not a two part (color and hardener) product. And, yes, the two-part aerosol epoxy mentioned in the other post is a true epoxy and a good top coat.

So, now you know. BTW, the VHT line of high temp Engine Enamel is somewhat resistant to gasoline and oil if you wipe it up quick. And remember the sun curing trick (or heat lamps), it does make a difference.

Good luck.

 

[PetesPonies]

There are more downsides for the DIYer. Any of the cured systems ( urethanes, whether SS or BC/CC ) contain isocyanates. Isocyanates are not filtered by organic masks. Each and every person is effected differently by isocyanates. A fresh air breathing system is the only safe way to handle this deadly chemical. Understand them . . read about them. Epoxy materials do not contain isos . . a very good thing and why I use so much epoxy primer and I have a fresh air system.

 

[Tech7]

There are also single stage urethanes that work quite well too. No need to clear, so it will save you some money. That's what I used on my frame and fender. +1 on the epoxy as well. Dupont DP series epoxy primers are about bulletproof.

 

[PetesPonies]

I have used Kirker epoxy exclusively for about 15 years now. It is the best value on the market and is even sandable. Most epoxies are not sandable. You can get 2 sprayable gallons for under $100 !! and the sanding part is just as important. Its more of a reaction primer, thus it has a short recoat window of only 24 hours without sanding. But that allows you to be able to sand it in a day or two, something others epoxies will not allow. You will just have to trust me on this. I have given this info to lots of people about Kirker and get many many responses about how much they liked using it as well. I wish I was part of the company, but I am not

 

[cooltouch]

I painted my Sportster's tank and fenders a few years back using an enamel undercoat and a PPG two-part product for the clear coat. It came in a quart size can + the hardener and wasn't all that expensive. I think I paid less than $20 for it. It is sandable and can be buffed out. Came out looking great.

But what Pete says is correct, especially the part about the mask. I have a full-face mask with the filter cartridges that I wore when spraying the clear-coat. A chemist friend of mine gave it to me and cautioned me that, if I start getting even a trace whif of the clear-coat then the filters need to be replaced. They were still good enough to complete the project, cuz I didn't detect the slightest odor.

I found that doing it myself was way more work than I thought it would be, and now I understand why bike painters charge as much as they do. I figure I spent a couple days alone wet sanding and buffing out the clear coat until it was where I wanted it.

And one more thing -- if you decide to shoot this two-part stuff, make sure you thoroughly clean your spray gun. After you think you've got it good and clean, clean it again. Cuz once that stuff sets up, it will be almost impossible to get out of your gun.

With my current project, I decided to forego all the hassle and just used a clear enamel. I know full well that if I get fuel on the tank, it will damage the finish, and I've just decided that I'll have to be extra diligent. Or else strip it down and do it right, and just accept the fact that it's gonna take a lot of work to do it the right way.

 

[Bobber 12]

you can use any automotive POLYURATHANE clear coat and it will be gasoline proof I am a profesional custom painter and the Pollyuethane is what you need you can pick it up at any parts store and the price varies by what u need just make sure you have the right hardner and mix it accordingly. us can still use the base from duplicolor just make sure that you top coat it with a Polyurethane clear. Dupont make a 4-1 clear in there Nason line that works great and buffs nice also remember that If your going to flat sand and buff the clear 4 coats should do just give it five to ten minutes in between coats.

 

[PetesPonies]

Certainly didn't want to get too involved here, but I want the info to be correct. Many of us have put a urethane clear over a lacquer; this is what you will get in a spray can usually if buying automotive quality. Although I have done it, there are potential problems. Lacquer air dries, and never stops doing so. By putting a urethane clear on it, you have trapped all the paint vehicle in the paint, it can't out gas. So . . . use very thin coats of lacquer. Do not apply it heavy at all. Give time for it to dry in between and then cross your fingers. Painting is knowing how to do it and knowing what you are doing with the chemicals.

 

[gentlemanjim]

I knew I could get the straight answers I needed here. Thanks all. My ignorance was based on my recollection throught life in the way back machine seeing gasoline stains on the side of cars from spilled gasoline and no damage to the paint.

Needless to say that was then and this now. I have a HVLP spray gun and a compressor. The little cans did such a great job I thought what the hey this is easier.

Time to pull out the big guns.

Thanks again.

GJ

 

[cooltouch]

Yeah, and get one of those plastic de-watering filters you can attach to your gun if you don't already have one somewhere in your compressor's system. Nothing worse than having the gun start blowing condensation all over your wet paint.

 

[PetesPonies]

Gentle . and not only what I have said, but . . lacquer today is in no way the same material it was in the 60s . . not even close

 

[gentlemanjim]

I did a test patch with urethane clear will check out the reults in the AM

 

[xjwmx]

For folks who want fine bodywork cheap, pull into a body shop, immediately go around to the side and find a guy who is obviously just working there. Ask him what he will charge to do the work at his home.

 

[Bobber 12]

Or you can just call me and I can do it at home in my garage.

 

[gentlemanjim]

OK the test patch Duplicor spray dried overnight and I clear coated with Color-Rite urethane. Looked good no bad reactions. Very hard surface to touch. I don't know about gasoline resistance, but I recall I used it on my K75 build and can't recall any issues. It's kind of strange stuff it goes on milky and dries clear. I guess that's normal.

Unless I am deterred I will clear coat my tank this way after a few days of drying under a fan.

 

[cooltouch]

Thanks for the info on the Color-Rite, GJ. Think I'll pick up a can and shoot a few coats onto the XS750 tank I bought for my cafe project. I looked up Color-Rite's info page on it, and they claim its suitable for fuel tanks.

How is it as far as runs? Does it run easily? That's a problem I noticed with other rattle-can clears I've used.

 

[gentlemanjim]

It sprays ok. I'm going to do a few xtra coats no to wet so I can color sand with 1200 - 1500 grit and then buff and polish. Intersting I'm paint a XS750 standard tank myself. The have such a nice shape extra capacity.