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xs650newb

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Hey guys,

This question is from my project thread (http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?p=361188#post361188). Its on the second page of the thread and I'm afraid it isn't getting good visibility by the people that can answer this question.

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Anyways, my (new to me) 1977 xs650 is NOT CHARGING AT ALL. Battery voltage at rest is about 12.5 volts and its not just a surface charge because the battery easily drives the starter motor (I also did these tests jumped to my car battery).

When I say it doesn't charge I mean that literally there is NO voltage change when I rev the bike.


Here is what I have done to investigate:

1) Performed a slap test on the rotor. Successful.

2) Checked alternator brushes. They are each longer than 1/4 inch. They also make strong electrical contact with their respective slip ring

3) Slip ring resistance. Was between 5 and 6 ohms.

4) Stator resistance. Resistance between each combination of white wires on the stator was 0.4 or 0.5 ohms.

5) Voltage at positive alternator brush. The voltage was approximately 0.6 volts less than the battery voltage. Curly suggests this is a problem. I haven't been able to find where the voltage drop occurs but I want to skip this for now because I figure this would not explain why there is absolutely NO CHARGING going on. I figure a low voltage at an alternator brush would cause weak charging, not NO charging. Is this right?

6) Stator output. With the stator PLUGGED INTO the wiring harness I checked the AC Voltage on each combination of white wires. They were all approximately 20 volts.

I think the problem is with the last test. According to Curly's guide it should be about 11 VAC, not 20 VAC. Curly suggests this means a bad rectifier. Is this correct? Can someone explain how a bad rectifier would result in absolutely NO charging.

Also, anything else I should check.

Thanks guys,
Adam
 
Normal stator output is around 12 to 13 AC volts, with engine idling. If the 3 phase rectifier is working, you will see the 12 to 13 volts. However, if the rectifier is not working, the AC voltage can go high, as you are seeing.

Page 158 of the Haynes manual shows you how to test the 6 diodes that are inside the rectifier unit. Each diode should have low resistance one way and high resistance the other way.

If your bike still has the original rectifier that was mounted under the battery box, it is worn out and should be replaced asap. Electrical components wear out over time. If it is original, I wouldn't even bother to test it..................just buy a new one.

There are new 3 phase rectifiers available on E-bay for very low prices. A 25 amp unit is all you need. Do a "search" for SQL25A 3 phase rectifier.

Would be wise to replace the original regulator, with something like the VR-115 regulator.

Also................1/4" brushes are worn out..................buy new ones.
 
thanks rg, I was hoping you would respond. :)

Anyways, I just finished putting together the rectifier mod from Radioshack. I'll mount it to my bike tomorrow and post the results. Hopefully it fixes everything.

Also, I'd like to do the VR-115 mod as well. I know these units were used on Jeeps and American Motor Company vehicles in the early seventies.

According to Autozone BOTH vehicles used a VRA-377HD. The link is here:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa.../N-iphoiZ9ci9t?itemIdentifier=130120_73217_0_

Any chance the VRA-337HD is the same as the VR-115?

They look the same and the wire colors are also the same, for whatever that is worth.

Thanks,
Adam
 
XS650newb, TwoMany and Retiredgentleman are right, you should complete your run-through of checks by checking the regulator-rectifier. I have just been getting to know a little bit more on how electronics actually work, and the fellers have been very helpful.

Good luck

ANLAF
 
Thanks anlaf.

RG and others, one more question.

If I go with the VR-115 mod do I need to use nylon screws on the positive alternator brush? This is for a 1977 model.

Adam
 
Alrighty guys.

Looks like the radioshack rectifier didn't do the trick. Furthermore, I tested the stock rectifier and it tested good.

As I was looking over the bike I'm noticing a lot of spots in the wiring harness where the PO did funky stuff. I'm thinking the best course of action here is to simply replace the wiring harness with a new one from Mikes. I'd like peace of mind anyways knowing my electrical system is tip-top.

As an example of the badness there was no ground connection for the harness side connector for the rectifier on the black wire. Even when I jumped the rectifier's black wire directly to the negative battery terminal the bike didn't charge though.

Best,
Adam
 
Yes, POs are the most hated people on this planet.:)

With the rectifier black wire not connected to ground (battery negative), electrically that is the same as a defective rectifier. Apparently you have more than one electrical problem, as after you corrected the missing rectifier ground, you should have had charging working again.

Sounds like the wiring is a real mess. A new harness may be the way to go. I recommend you use the new rectifier, not the old one. I don't know what regulator you have now, but a VR-115 will do a good job of regulation for you.
 
Thanks rg.

I will indeed keep the new rectifier and I'll put on the VR-115 for peace of mind.

Quick question. Can I assume the rotor and stator are ok? The stator windings gave measurements of 0.4, 0.4, and 0.5 ohms while the rotor slip ring resistance was 5.6 ohms. Furthermore, the stator was putting out ~20 VAC.

Best,
Adam
 
Thanks rg.

I will indeed keep the new rectifier and I'll put on the VR-115 for peace of mind.

Quick question. Can I assume the rotor and stator are ok? The stator windings gave measurements of 0.4, 0.4, and 0.5 ohms while the rotor slip ring resistance was 5.6 ohms. Furthermore, the stator was putting out ~20 VAC.

Best,
Adam

From your readings, the stator and rotor should be OK.
 
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