Rotor or PMA or Banshee?

[Micksin]

This is not a 'help me trouble-shoot my charging system' post.... I'm hoping for some guidance on what to do now that I have established the problem.

I have just bought an '83 XS-K Heritage Special. I confirmed the model here (http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42) by using the engine number. It was recently imported from the states – I bought it from a guy who did the import to Australia. Unfortunately it looks as though my new 32 year old bike (with only 5500miles) has a charging problem.

Thanks to the awesome information in this forum I have tackled the troubleshooting, learnt shed loads and established the following:

· No charge above battery voltage getting to the battery terminals. I learnt this the hard way...breaking down a long way from home...in the rain.
· No magnetism at the alternator when ignition switched on.
· The reg/reg connector had some 'chalky' connections (red and whites). I replaced the plug and all the connections here.
· Battery charge is getting to the positive brush. Only slightly below battery voltage (Initially, I took a DC volt reading from the positive brush and the negative brush and got 4.69 DC volts. But when I took the reading from the positive brush and another ground I get near battery voltage – I assume that I must have taken the first reading incorrectly?)
· The Brushes are fine. Plenty of room left.
· Rotor has reading of 1.0 ohm between the slip rings and 44.5 ohms when grounded on the rotor nut. It's toast.
· I also traced voltage through the wiring system and checked the resistance of the 3 white wires going to the reg/rec. all good.

So, I have read a lot on here about rewinding rotors, buying new ones and upgrading to PMA. I'm trying to understand which is the best option:

1) Get a rewound, used or new rotor? I'm concerned that after I do this I might find that my reg/rec is also be knackered and then have to spend more coin to sort that out. I did the reg/rec bypass test where I jumped the green wire to ground to test the output back to the battery – it failed to increase. But during the 'green wire' test I also tested the voltage at the positive and negative brush. Prior to the jump I was getting a reading of 4.69 DCV...with the jump I got 8.69 DCV. Does this prove anything about the reg/rec? Is it likely to be knackered as well?

2) Upgrade to a PMA like the 200watt kit on Mike's XS? It looks relatively easy to install....but, given the bike I have (83 XS-K), do I need to upgrade to a cam timed ignition system as well? If so, why? I'm quite confused on this.

3) Go the Banshee flywheel option? Do I need to upgrade the ignition system for this to work? If so, why?

Or is there an option 4) ?

I am not looking for high output...I'm happy with having the bike run as it is (or was). I don't have a garage to work on the bike and am very green when it comes to bike mechanics..But am keen to learn. And, I'm on a budget. It took a long time to save for this bike and I'm not keen on forking out too much more...but I do want a reliable bike.

Thanks in advance for your help...

 

[650Skull]

welcome.

For starters you live in Sydney and the Australian XS650 club was founded there and there are a multitude of people in and around the area who can help with local knowledge.

This site is good for learning from some very good threads.

If you join the club the Sec/Treasurer knows some one who does rewinds for a good price. he needs 3 at a time and i'm sure you could get someone else to help make up the no's. Me for one 1 or 2 of the other rotors.

There is a good thread HERE on a cheap alternative to the combined reg/rect and also there are so many of the later, 80-83 combined reg/rec,t being replaced by people converting to PMA's, out there. They are being sold through this site, or sitting waiting for an inquiry.

Converting to any PMA, (banshee is a PMA), system you need to covert your ignition system to something else and that includes a different reg/rect. Because yours is factory ignition, then a Pamco is going to set you back quite a bit because you need to find an advance rod, second hand, or buy new + a new reg/rect

One of the first things is to check if you have spark, if yes then you ignition box is ok so keeping things as original, (except the link to Reg/rect), as possible will help to save money in the short term so you can get to work on and learn about your bike. A rewound rotor and seperate reg/rect, (as per link), will set you back a couple of hundred. A PMA, Pamco and rod will be closer to $600

Being a US import the BS34 carbs will have the US EPA needles and needle jets. The needles are non adjustable so make sure you learn how to tune them. The Carb guide, (first link), is a must. Download and print it out.

HERE is another thread that has a lot of the important links to info and tutorials for a new owner.

 

[Micksin]

thanks for the reply 650skull. Sound advice.

I just spoke with Geoff from www.geoffsxs.com.au. A reg/rect is about $58 and he's in Sydney so not much hassle or cost if I end up needing one after sorting out the rotor.

There is so much info in these forums, its difficult for a newbie to figure out what is relevant and what is not. Cheers for the tips. Re the club..I'll look into that. And I might be in touch about the rewind.

 

[650Skull]

That last link i gave you covers all you will need to know. There are links in line with the chapters through out out the Manual. Those links compliment the manual and they are from the site and also web pages with tutorials or updated info needed.

Let me know on the rotors, as i said i have a couple that need doing.

 

[Micksin]

Have just been browsing that link 650skull. Lots of good stuff. Cheers.

Couple of questions re rewind. How long would it take and what is your guesstimate on cost? I'm keen to get that done. Just need to get the damn thing off - I'm looking for a rotor puller. I've seen there are some 'hacks' to get it off but I would rather do it properly.

 

[arcticXS]

Mick,
If your stock alternator needs replacing or rewinding of rotor and/or stator, etc. I would stronly suggest the following alternative, a "Powerdynamo CDI Alternator":
http://xs650.biz/p/28/3423/mo74-cg|...-integrated-solid-state-ignition-(15kg-rotor)

This system will replace the existing alternator, regulator, rectifier, TCI ignition, coils and your 40 year old wiring as well. It is made in the Czech republic, so much better quality than stuff made in China, self generating crank triggered CDI ignition, so can be run without any battery or capacitor if you want to.

Also available directly from manufacturer, in several versions, PMA only, PMA+CDI for standard 360 degree crank, and for 277 degree rephased engines:
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/deu/systems/lists/yamaha.php

You could even use a Zeeltronic freely programmable ignition curve device with the Powerdynamo, if you should need to alter the timing curve. The baseline timing is set with rotor position on crankshaft, no key is used.

 

[Signal]

Trust your instinct on the rotor puller issue, if you do manage to get it off without the correct puller there is a high probability that it will be damaged so that it cannot be rewound. The pullers are available from Geoff's XS AU $14.50.

 

[Micksin]

Thanks articXS. I'm going for the rotor route this time round. I'll post back to this thread if that works out or doesn't.

signal. Geoffs is outta stock. I'm ringing around sydney bike mechanics to track one down.

 

[Micksin]

An update on the problem: Solved.

I met up with Geoff from www.geoffsxs.com.au and he sorted me out with a new rotor and brushes. He also loaned me his puller.

Within an hour of getting them home my bike was charging at 14.5v at the battery when revved over 2000rpm. Easy. I also cleaned all my wiring connections including the key switch to ensure I had battery voltage getting all the way to the brushes. The multimeter was my best friend.

Whilst looking for someone to rewind the rotor I found a couple of guys reasonably close to Sydney...One in Mittagong that will do a rewind for $180 and another guy in Gosford who didn't do the rewind but said he will teach me how to do it. If anyone wants their details just PM me.

BTW.. If you're looking for parts, give Geoff a call.