Safety Relay gone bad?

[grizld1]

No, you won't get less charge from the CR rotor, due to the heavier windings; it's in every way superior to the OE production. Yes, there's a torque spec, and you need to start looking things up for yourself or you'll have a very hard time maintaining that old machine. You can download the factory service manual free from http://www.biker.net. Thread locker is neither required nor recommended.

 

[xs650dude63]

OK, I installed the rewound rotor, it started GREAT idles GREAT, but when I press the starter button, the starter engages, that means Im not getting the proper voltage, which I think is 4.5 volts or so to trip the safety relay.

My battery is fully charged 12.6 volts, when I rev the motor to 3500 rpms even 4000 rpms, it will only go up 13.20 volts, whats the deal with that??? Do I have a bad rewound rotor?

Im getting 12.6 volts off the brown wire at the brushes.

I did check the relay switch, got a click, is it possible one of the relays are bad since there are two of them, maybe the starter relay is bad thats why it works when the bike is running, but the headlight relay is the one I heard click when I tested it????

 

[grizld1]

1. Follow the instructions for testing unregulated alternator output; you have the sources to find them. If output is good, you probably have a bad regulator.
2. To test the SR, remove it from bike, hook up 3 dry cell batteries end to end, and use them to trip the relay trigger. Then use your ohm meter to check continuity on the relay wires. With the relay tripped, there should be no continuity on the starter wires and no resistance on the headlight wires.

If you got a bad rotor from Custom Rewind it will be the first one I ever heard of.

 

[Brassneck]

Rewound's I've heard are ok with a lower ohm between rings. Shouldn't impact the magnets. No to locktite, yes to torque value...but I don't recall what that is. Your manual should have it listed.

 

[xs650dude63]

How exactly do I check continuity on the starter wires, what setting on my multimeter? What wires am I touching with the probes, sorry this is all new to me.

 

[grizld1]

Your SR has 6 wires. The trigger wires are yellow and black. The headlight wires are blue and red with yellow stripe. The two starter wires are red with white stripe. Use the ohm meter on a low setting to determine if the relay switches are working as they should when you power the trigger wires. Think about it.

 

[xs650dude63]

I attached 3 flashlight batteries together 4.5 Volts and the relay tripped. I am still trying to figure out how to check continuity.

 

[weekendrider]

Put your meter on the lowest ohm setting. Touch each lead to the separate ends of wire you are wanting to check. If you have continuity the meter will read a number. The lower the number the less resistance. If there isn't continuity you will have an "I" not to be confused with the number one. You can see what I mean by just touching the leads together.
Some meters have a setting with an arrow pointing to a vertical line. Kinda like this >l.
I'm not sure what that "sign" says or means but it also seems to work to check continuity.

 

[Brassneck]

I attached 3 flashlight batteries together 4.5 Volts and the relay tripped. I am still trying to figure out how to check continuity.

 

[grizld1]

The R/W wires that power the starter motor are positioned one above the other at one end of the SR plug. With your meter on its lowest ohm range, touch one probe to each of those terminals with the relay unpowered. Your reading should be close to 0 ohms--closed circuit. Power the relay and repeat. Your reading should indicate infinite resistance--open circuit. The R/Y wire for the headlight is in the middle of the plug next to the blue wire. With the relay unpowered, touch probes to those terminals. The reading should indicate infinite resistance--open circuit. Repeat with power to the relay. The reading should be close to 0--closed circuit.

 

[xs650dude63]

If I want to check continuity to the headlight relay I stick one of the probes into the blue wire plug and the other probe into the red with yellow stripe wire plug?

If I want to check continuity to the starter relay I stick one probe into the red with white stripe wire plug and the other probe into the other red with white stripe wire plug?

I did this on 200 OHM setting and the headlight relay gave me a reading of I. unpowered and 03.2 powered, the numbers were jumpy, but settled on 03.2

The starter relay gave me a reading of 03.0 Ohms unpowered and I powered

so....is this a good relay or is this the root to my problems.

 

[650Skull]

Continuity Ohms testing should be with the power off.

 

[grizld1]

Skull, note that the tests were done on the bench with the SR unplugged and the trigger wires only powered by 3 dry cell batteries, no power through the other leads. The reason for this procedure is that we already know that with the relay connected to the harness, the starter circuit stays closed after the motor has started.

Dude, you need to clean the terminals and subtract the latent resistance of the probes before you can have any confidence in the closed circuit resistance readings, but the SR is working as it should. You'd be well advised to clean up connections through the whole harness, buy a manual with a wiring diagram in it, and read some of the many threads on troubleshooting the electrics. You'd also be well advised to get a meter with a low resistance range on it.

Re. the starter, the PO might have bypassed the SR. To test, unplug the SR, turn on the key switch, and press the starter button.

 

[xs650dude63]

This is what Im trying to figure out, the bike starts GREAT, the bike runs GREAT, I got a rewound rotor from custom rewind, the safety relay starter works when the bike is running, so not enough power 4.5 volts is getting to the relay to trip it to keep the starter from working, the headlight wiring is all messed up, I still have to work on that.

I guess I trying to figure out whats wrong here, bad rotor, bad safety relay, bad alternator, bad regulator/rectifier, all the connections look clean, if not how do you get into the plug and clean those things....what do you use????

This is getting very frustrating, I want to be sure this rotor is in good working order so I can send them my core to get my core deposit. I thought once the new rotor was installed it would put out enough volts 4.5 through the yellow wire to trip the safety relay so the starter button would not engage the starter when running, then I could work on the headlight, gonna need that to work, for obvious reasons.

The only things that aren't working properly on this bike is the starter working while the motor is running and the headlight that won't work until the safety relay is figured out, once these two two things are figured I should be golden.....we'll see.

 

[xs650dude63]

I cleaned up all the connections and plugs with Deoxit contact cleaner, the motorcycle started right up, idled good, but when I pressed the starter button the starter engaged, the battery was at 12.6 volts when I started it, when I rev it up to 3500 rpms it only climbs up to 13.2 volts.

Could this be bad brushes, they are new but they were cheap off of ebay!

I'm getting 12.6 volts off the brown wire at the brushes.

I hope this isn't a bad rotor from custom rewind, any ideas or help would be much appreciated.

I also noticed I have metal screws holding my brushes, should they be nylon?

Where do you guys recommend I get new brushes that are more likely to be good?

 

[xs650dude63]

Ok I am reading curlys guide and I did a few tests:

Stater wire test, 3 white, meter on AC, plugged in, bike running::::::::::7.0...6.8...7.2
according to curly they should be 10.5 to 11 AC

Something is grounding my stator, what could it be, I don't fully understand what grounding means, are there some usual things that might ground a stator???

so I unplugged the stator to check OHMs::::::::::::::01.8...01.9...01.8 Ohms
curly said it should be 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms I did a test lead and got 01.3 Ohms

Got low reading so I disconnected the yellow wire, and checked each white wire and grounded it::::::::::::01.5...01.6...01.5 Ohms

Curly said I should get a very high Kilo Ohm or infinite reading, I got neither. I checked to see if any wires have been pinched by the stator case and they have not, curly says the stator is shorted and needs to be replaced.

Is the stator the same as the rotor, rotor is a new rewind from custom rewind, or is the stator and the alternator the same thing??? I still hoping the brushes are the problem HAHA

 

[weekendrider]

The rotor you know. The stator is the aluminum housing with coiled wiring that fits over the rotor. Together the two parts make an alternator.

 

[grizld1]

Rotor: part of the alternator that houses a magnet and rotates.
Stator: part of the alternator that houses coils in which electricity is induced; it is static.

If you keep trying to work on your machine without a manual, you're going to experience increasing trouble and frustration. Slow down, study, and above all, think.

 

[xs650dude63]

Come on you guys...give me a freaken break, Im reading, Im testing everything under the sun, I just don't have the experience, you know you have all ran into these problems before, what causes them, shit.....do I need to buy new brushes, is it possible I bought shitty cheap ones, are these the symptoms of bad brushes. If I have a rewound rotor could it be the stator part thats bad. ive posted all my readings from my tests. do those confirm a POSSIBLE bad stator, once again this is all new too me, I don't have years of experience with these motorcycles like some of you guys do. I not afraid to do the hard work, read, test, but it seems I'm doing them over and over again, shit, if I have to spend a little extra and buy a new part I would rather do that then sit in my garage for a week trying to figure something out. Sorry, for the rant, I just wanna ride!!!

 

[Brassneck]

No worries, it sounds like a frustrating situation and not an easy one to diagnose. You've definitely been testing...that's for sure.

With your leads at 1.3 ohms, your readings on the combination of the three wires are .3,.4,.3? That sounds low. Then, when running, I'd expect to see a lot higher AC volts.

When you say it's grounding, what test did you do to determine that? Unfortunately, it sounds like your stator is not working correctly...

Unfortunately, I don't know why the starter is still working once it's running...that could be a separate issue. Perhaps the starter relay is bad...

Alternatively, the reg/rec could be an issue and limiting it's output, I've heard that happening before.

Perhaps someone has had a bad stator and will chime in.