Safety Relay gone bad?

[xs650dude63]

When you say "short the green wire brush" Do you mean, take a jumper wire, stick it into the backside of the plug where the green wire is, regulator side of the plug and ground it out? Should the bike be running?

I am new to all this never used a multi-tester, don't understand all the "lingo" I hate to admit it, but I need to be walked through like a baby. haha...

And testing the rectifier, that's another issue.

 

[5twins]

Go to the link in post #15 above and read post #2. That pretty much explains what you need to do, and how. It helps if you understand how your charging system operates. Your late type ('80-'83) has a regulator that switches the ground on and off to the outside brush through the green wire. This is how it "regulates" or controls the amount of charging output.

To test the regulator, you need to jumper the green wire to ground. You can do it right there at the brush. Start the bike and the voltage should climb to 15+ volts. If no change, the regulator is probably OK and the problem is something else, maybe the rectifier as Gary mentioned.

 

[xs650dude63]

So tell me, Am I going to take a jump wire from the switched power screw and connect to the regulated ground screw?

 

[Brassneck]

No, what you want to do is get a jumper wire, connect to a good ground (an engine mounting bolt or even from the negative side of the battery)...and connect the other end to the green wire at the brush...when you start the bike, what you're doing is providing a ground signal to the brush...which in turn wants to add a charge to your battery...if your regulator is good, it will keep it from over charging...with your multimeter on and connected to the battery, you'll see if the voltage starts to rise...if it does, that means your regulator isn't controlling the charge and is bad. if it doesn't rise, then it is probably ok.

 

[xs650dude63]

Can I just hold the wire on the green wire or should I loosen it up and attach it under the screw?

 

[Brassneck]

Yes, but with moving parts, you may want to clip it on there some how (I have a 16 gauge wire with alligator clips attached to each side) and so you can move around the bike and get a better view of the multimeter when the bike's running.

 

[xs650dude63]

I grounded out the green wire, the volt meter read 12.7 volts, I revved the bike to 3500 RPMs and it rose to 13.00 volts, does this mean my regulator is bad?

 

[Brassneck]

Sounds like it's working fine.

 

[xs650dude63]

I wonder if my stator is bad?

If the stator won't put out enough power to trip the safety relay, does that mean its gone bad?

 

[5twins]

As suggested by Gary, your rectifier may be bad. If it is you're in luck because they're cheap to replace.

 

[gggGary]

yeah consider the VR115 3 phase rectifier mod.

As twins mentions below I pulled that VR115 number out of my... well never mind.

 

[5twins]

He could just add a rectifier and continue using the regulator part of his combined unit. Besides, I don't think the VR115 is correct for his '80 and newer system. I think he needs a different one, a VR295 maybe. But, I don't know for sure about that number. I know what works for my '70-'79 charging system (the VR115) because that's what I need to know, lol.

 

[xs650dude63]

Walk me through it guy's, how do I check this rectifier, remember, I new to all this, I need step by step instructions.

 

[5twins]

Read the first line in post 22.

 

[xs650dude63]

OK, I am getting 12.6 volts from the brown wire, I am going to check the 3 white wires off the stator connector, EXACTLY, what setting on the multi-meter do I put it on? While the bike is running do I stick the probe into the backside of the connector and try to touch metal? Then do I ground out the black probe? So I do each white wire one after another and write down the readings?

In the guide it says "I should see about 10.5 to 11AC volts on each of the three combinations of white to white that you make" What does "white to white" mean, don't I just probe each white wire seperately and get a reading?

 

[Brassneck]

Here's a vid that covers it:

 

[Brassneck]

Here's another that may be easier to see:

 

[xs650dude63]

ok, I did the diode check from the videos you sent me, these are my results.

RED LEAD
RED 000

RED LEAD
BLACK 531 520 531

RED
BLACK LEAD 540 558 539

BLACK LEAD
BLACK 000

I HAVE ONE OF THOSE CHEAP HARBOR FREIGHT METERS SO i DIDN'T GET 0'S MINE READ 1

I guess my rectifier is good, what next?

 

[XSLeo]

Yes those readings are fine, a rectifier is a set of diodes, in this case 6 diodes. As long as there is at least 10 times as much resistance one way as the other it's good.
You have zero one way and over 500 the other, that's fine.
On your meter there is a 200 ohm scale. Those Harbor freight meters are just fine. Plenty accurate if used right. I have several. Like them enough I bought the more expensive one.
Unplug the connector on the wires coming up from the stator. Near this plug is a single connector with a yellow wire, unhook this too. This connector has 3 whites, a green, brown, red, black and blue wire. The three whites come from the stator. These carry three phase AC to the rectifier half of your reg/rec. The rectifier converts the AC to DC the bike can use.
The brown wire carries battery voltage to the brush.
The green wire goes to the regulator half of the reg/rec. The reg uses this wire to control current flow through the rotor.
Red is positive to charge the battery, Black Is ground.
Set your meter to the 200 ohm scale. Touch the probes together, this tells you the ohms of just the leads, even expensive meters you need to do this. Remember this reading, it comes into play later. In your head number the three white wires 1,2,3. Test them as pairs, numbers 1-2,1-3, 2-3. Now we use the leads reading, subtract the leads reading from the test readings. On one of my meters the leads test .7 ohms. Let's say I test the ohms on the stator and get 1.6 ohms, I then subtract the .7 and get .9 ohms, That's a good reading. Your may not come out exactly at .9 but as long as they all come out the same is the important thing.
You should use this leads check and subtract method on any ohms you think will be below about 10 ohms or so, above that it won't really matter.
After you test the whites you also need to test from the whites to ground, the body of the stator. Put your meter on 20k ohms for this. You should get an infinity reading, the 1 over on the left side with a dot in the middle. This means there is no continuity from the wires to ground. This is good. The same test should be done on the rotor. The ohms may be ok but it can still have a short to ground.
On either a short to ground will limit the output.
Leo

 

[Brassneck]

OK...so seems to test ok...

Here's a few thoughts..
1) Your safety relay may be bad, I can't recall but I think you initially posted about that, right? So it may indeed be the issue. Have you done a test on this? I'm assuming so, since we're on to charging issues...and nothing going past 13 volts, right?

2) You may have a loss in voltage at the brown/black wire at the brush...which should read about the same voltage as your battery...it's suggested that anything less than .3 volts from what your battery reads would indicate an issue and you'd need to clean up all the connections leading up to that brush. (Check the line from the connector to the key switch, etc) If you have about the same volts at the brush and battery, start it up and rev to 3000rpms, see if the voltage goes up past 14v.

3) When you tested the rotor, you showed 5.3 ohms between rings, but did you also test against ground? It should read "Infinity" If not, your rotor's bad.

4) Stator may be bad...to do this test, it's pretty simple, but you need to have the motor running...and switch your multimeter to AC (not DC as you've been using so far).
With everything plugged in, at the stator connector...find the three white wires (you should be able to get to them from the back of the connector even when plugged into the reg/rec). You're looking to touch the leads to the white wires...a combination of all three....so say you label each white wire a, b, c...then you go a+b= ?, b+c= ?, a+c= ?. And you're looking for 10-11 AC volts... anything lower and your stator is grounding...and further testing needs to be done on the stator.