some wiring diagrams

Hey Peanut, thank you for the reply and information. I apologize for the typos, sending from a cell phone is no good but it's all I can use. I also apologize for the generalization of the wire colors. As far as the red/white wire I was speaking of, I was referring to the r/w wire that is coming from the output side of the kill switch, so basically a wire that is carrying 12 volts to the ignition coil, the as well as to other components such as the safety relay I am speaking of. Solely referring to the safety relay, I have the yellow wire connected to my alternator/stator, the red/white output going straight to the starter solenoid, and the black wire to ground. The ignition switch that I am using provides a 12 volt charge, so I am thinking I can wire the 12v output of the ignition straight to the red/white input wire of the safety relay that originally recieved 12 volts from the kill switch output. I would also like to include a kill switch, but that will not be a problem. There is also a red/yellow wire coming off the safety relay that powers the headlights, so I am thinking I will run that wire to the headlights with an inline fuse. I apologize if once again that is too vague. I will try to get to a computer tomorrow and include links of the diagrams I am using.

Thanks guys.
 
hey buddy I wasn't having a dig at you :wink2: my spelling is so bad I have to erdit every post about 6x times to get it right.
I don't know how you can write a huge message on a cellfone I gave up long ago lol.

Re the colour of wires I was making a general statement at large really as it is one of my pet hates . We should never assume that a wire connects to a particular component just because the colour is the same as the wiring schematic . We should always use a multimeter to check it connects to what we believe it does. If you've ever stripped a wiring loom you'll have seen how many hidden connections the manufacturers make within the loom .

I hadn't realised that you had chopped your wiring loom and added some aftermarket switches and stuff. It does complicate things a bit.

If I could see the wiring schematic that you worked from I could sort your connections out for you but its impossible without seeing what you have done and what you are trying to connect.



Vansnxtweek said:
Hey Peanut, thank you for the reply and information. I apologize for the typos, sending from a cell phone is no good but it's all I can use. I also apologize for the generalization of the wire colors. As far as the red/white wire I was speaking of, I was referring to the r/w wire that is coming from the output side of the kill switch, so basically a wire that is carrying 12 volts to the ignition coil, the as well as to other components such as the safety relay I am speaking of. Solely referring to the safety relay, I have the yellow wire connected to my alternator/stator, the red/white output going straight to the starter solenoid, and the black wire to ground. The ignition switch that I am using provides a 12 volt charge, so I am thinking I can wire the 12v output of the ignition straight to the red/white input wire of the safety relay that originally recieved 12 volts from the kill switch output. I would also like to include a kill switch, but that will not be a problem. There is also a red/yellow wire coming off the safety relay that powers the headlights, so I am thinking I will run that wire to the headlights with an inline fuse. I apologize if once again that is too vague. I will try to get to a computer tomorrow and include links of the diagrams I am using.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
 
The red/white wire from the kill switch isn't a supply to the coil and safety relay :wink2:

The kill switch basically takes the 12v+ live feed that is at the coils and shorts it to ground within the kill switch so that the ignition system stops functioning and the engine dies .

It does this by connecting a wire (red/white in this case)to the live side of the coils (red /white wires) and running the wire to your kill switch . When you press the kill switch the red/white wire in the kill switch is shorted to ground ( via the black wire in the kill switch) and everything connected to that red/white wire (ie the coils) is shorted to ground.

This is a very simplistic description and there is a diode which must be fitted in the circuit so don't just connect your coil directly to the kill switch,... but it should hopefully give the gist of what the kill switch does

If I've got anything wrong here please correct me someone so that no miss information stays on this thread for future viewers.
Vansnxtweek said:
The ignition switch that I am using provides a 12 volt charge, ?
so I am thinking I can wire the 12v output of the ignition straight to the red/white input wire of the safety relay that originally recieved 12 volts from the kill switch output. :yikes:

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

this doesn't sound correct at all !
I shouldn't connect anything until we've seen the schematic you are working to . if you connect it up wrong you could fry something expensive.:wink2:
Lets get this right :thumbsup:
 
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Crap! Okay, well I guess I am totally wrong then. Thank you for your input and info. I'm gonna post up the schematics I am going off of when I get home tonight and we will go from there. I'm not gonna chance frying anything until I feel certain I've got it right.

And posting from the cell phone takes dedication....and no pride with errors you don't catch haha.
 
Alright guys, I'm here and I'm on a computer! Wahoo! Okay, so what I am working with is an 81 XS650. I am in the process of converting it to a hardtail and all that's involved with that. As far as my wiring, I am using what I can off of the stock harness to make my own. As far as additions, I have a TC Bros helper harness (It bothers me when people call it a complete wiring harness because it definitely isn't, but it does help!), and I have a LowBro 5 connection spring loaded, ignition/start switch. I am fairly confident that I have the charging system wired correctly.

Next, I am trying to use the electric start function of the bike by using the starting function on the LowBro ignition/start switch. I have been told that without use of the Safety Relay that the gears in the starter motor will eventually become damaged. I know I won't accidentally bump the starter while the bike is running because it is a keyed starter that will be down low. However, I have been trying to wire the safety relay in and that is really where I have been running into problems. I know how to wire the starter solenoid, but it really is just the safety relay.

As far as the Ignition/Start switch, it has five terminals. One for direct power from the battery, one to send power to the fuse block, one to send 12 volts to a starter relay, one to be connected to a magneto, and one to be grounded if a magneto is being used.

I have used a few different simplified wiring diagrams off of this thread, but none that I have found have included the safety relay. I have also been using a wiring diagram of the stock wiring harness, but it causes some confusion for me because of the fact that the stock setup uses inline fuses in the fuse panel, and I am using a fuse block that distributes 12 volts to each fuse terminal.

These are the diagrams I am using.

wiringjpg_zps07091cce.png


81XS650wiring_zps26f1ea2f.jpg


Thank you all for the help.
 
I have only just got to see this and I am going to need a little time to peruse the diagrams but right off I would saythat there is something odd about the wiring to the Pamco, coils kill switch etc. It looks like the pamco live feed is being shorted to ground by the kill switch which can't be right surely.?

The problem with these diy diagrams is they are rarely annotated. The designer knew what components he was using and designed the wiring accordingly.

if you take the kill switch for instance. They work in one of 2x ways . They either dissconnect the live feed to the the coils etc or they connect the live coil feed to ground .

Both switches are completely different!... One breaks a constant connection the other type of kill switch makes a connection where there was none.

you said that you are using a non-standard kill switch assembly so we have no way of knowing if the switch you have is push to make or push to break.?

I'm sure others more knowledgable than I will be along shortly to chip in but in the mean time I'll go grab a coffee and scan the schematics.
 
ok this just consists of the wiring and componentry that is involved in the bikes ignition.

if you look at where the kill switch is situated it looks to me as though the original designer intended the kill switch to be a push-to-break connection in other words the switch dissconnects the 12v+ live feed to the Pamco and Coils.

If you are using a push-to -make type kill switch (like the original xs650 switch and others)I would imagine it wouldn't do your Pamco any good for its live supply to be suddenly grounded to the chassis or your coils for that matter so you should make sure you are using the right type of switch.

Next it looks from the diagram that the starter motor itself is not grounded which is a bit misleading as the body of the motor is grounded through its fixing bolts to the crankcase so you need to make sure there is a good ground strap between the crankcase and the frame or better still direct to the battery

heres a better representation of what you need.

I don't know if the wiring shown is correct for the Pamco ?

Otherwise it looks ok if a little basic. Your ignition circuit is switch-live but there are no safety components so obviously there is a slight risk of inadvertently operating the starter motor when the engine is turning over or you are travelling along the road . Not quite sure what would happen in that case ?

The second modified diagram is a better representation of what you need
 

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On our XS650's the engine stop switch does not ground out, it is just an on/off switch. Power come from the key switch to the engine stop switch, some years the wire was brown on the power in some years red/white. With the engine stop switch in the run position power gets sent out on a red/white wire that goes to many things depending on the year. Some it just powered the ignition and starter relay through the safety relay, other years added more things. Like starter cut relays, side stand relays and such.
Vansnxtweek, To hook your key switch to the safety relay, your safety relay has two red/white wires? Hook one of these red/white wires to the key switch terminal that sends power out to the starter. Hook the other red/white wire to the red/white wire of the starter relay. Hook the blue/white wire to ground.
On the safety relay hook the yellow from the stator to the yellow of the safety relay, black from the safety relay to ground.
This will send power out of the key switch through the safety relay to the starter relay then to ground. This trips the starter relay and will start the bike. Once the bike starts the voltage on the yellow wire from the stator trips the safety relay, stopping the power from the key switch getting to the starter relay, stopping the starter.
Leo
 
XSLeo said:
On our XS650's the engine stop switch does not ground out, it is just an on/off switch.
Leo
Click to expand...

well then it is a break switch ....it breaks the connection .
there are only two types Leo
A 'make' or a 'break' if you fit the wrong one you are likely to damage something possibly cause a wiring fire

I think it is irresponsible to suggest to someone who is not au-fait with electrical stuff to just connect this coloured wire to that coloured wire etc .

You have no idea what this person has connected up at all!

if you read the whole thread properly you'll see that he has rewired the bike himself so you shouldn't assume anything.
quote
'I have used a few different simplified wiring diagrams off of this thread, but none that I have found have included the safety relay. I have also been using a wiring diagram of the stock wiring harness, but it causes some confusion for me because of the fact that the stock setup uses inline fuses in the fuse panel, and I am using a fuse block that distributes 12 volts to each fuse terminal. '
 
Okay, let me edit myself a little bit. Sorry, I got a little bit closed minded again I guess. My bike is an 81 Special with the electronic ignition, however, I am NOT using a Pamco ignition box. I was posting the other schematic in regards to the starting and accessory circuitry, not necessarily the charging system. As I said before, I have used the TC Bros charging system harness and I have all of that wired up as of now.

Also, I would not consider my ignition switch the kill switch. I have an ignition switch that has three positions, off, on, and start. The start being a spring return position that sends out 12 volts to the starter relay.

What Leo posted is the train of thought that I had, and in my non-professional electrical mind, that seems to make sense. But what does that guarantee?? Nothing :D

Peanut, basically what I am trying to figure out is how to wire the ignition switch I have, along with an aftermarket kill switch, to the stock wiring configuration, while taking out what I do not need. I have eliminated the starter cut relay and I have a large majority of the additional wires figured out. I am just curious about the wires coming off of the safety relay, and where they should go. When only speaking of wires coming directly off of the safety relay, I have the yellow wire going to the alternator, the black wire going to ground, and the red/white wire that originally went to the starter cut relay, now going to the starter relay red/white. The red/yellow wire coming off the safety relay originally went to an inline fuse, then out to the headlight accessories, but now I am not sure if I should do the same with that wire. I am also still not sure about the red/white input wire into the safety relay.

Otherwise, I feel good about things. So far...

I didn't mean to be confusing, and as always, thanks guys.
 
Hey guys, just wanted to give an update. I wired up the system as I had previously said I thought may work and sure enough, the starter cranked over when I turned the key! I was pretty happy and excited about this. Things are lookin good! Just have to do a lot of organizing and continuing to look over and button things up. Thanks guys for everything and if I can give any information to help the thread I'd be more than happy to do that.
 
sure its easy. you only need the ignition circuit a battery and a fuel bottle .
Hugh would be the best person to ask I'd imagine
 
Use any diagram that shows your ignition and just wire up the ignition section of the diagram.
Most show an engine stop switch that sends power to the ignition. On the power side of this switch hook it the positive side of a battery. Hook the negative side of the battery to the engine.
In the pic posted by peanut you can see Hugh mounted a bracket off the rear engine mount that supports a small plate that the coils and ignition system is mounted too. You will also see a bracket off the front of the engine that holds a throttle.
This way he can mount an engine in the stand and have the ignition and throttle hooked up.
On the engine stop switches shown in most diagrams look to work the same as a stock switch. In the off position no power flows to the ignition, in the run power flows. You see no ground connection on the engine stop switches.
Leo
 
My eyes are bleeding from all the reading! Can some one please show a wiring diagram for '80 xs650G has head light ( light has a hi off low beam switch on the light), tail/brake light, PMA charging and pamco ignition with hall sensor, key switch with off on and on. No turn signals, no kill switch. Please wiring is not my strong area( obviously)
 
Does this look like a safe and working wiring diagram? Seems like alot of these diagrams have the fuse for the battery and reg/rec just on the battery, but I seem to have read where it needs to be as I have it just after the key? Or should there be one in both places? Also I do not have a kill switch.
 

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Normally, the master fuse is between the battery and everything else, protects the harness and components from battery drain. But with the PMA and Pamco, you want to avoid a batteryless condition where the PMA could run wild (unregulated) and damage the Pamco.

Your diagram protects the harness and the Pamco, the PMA continues regulated. But, if the internal regulator goes out, the battery could sink thru the regulator, possibly toast the red wire, and discharge the battery.

I'm a "teach a man how to fish" kinda guy. Knowing this, how would YOU design this circuit?
 

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