TeeCat
One-Mik Wonder
Kev, I might just have to break down and call Mike Morse to see what he recommends for my situation.
I got the following message from Don James yesterday when I got home from running errands. I was floored.
>Wade:
>
> It seems to me that there is a Big problem with these carb holders. Everyone wants to put those metal covers on, and I can tell you that will not work with our carb sockets. It seems they feel they must have this metal cover, so I am halting production and will try to sell what I have on eBay, but I will make it a point to tell folks that they will not work with a metal cover. Sorry this project didn't work out the way I figured it would, but that is the way the collector car market is too. The customer wants "original'. I knew mine would be a little different. Best to wait to see if Mike's gets his problems fixed.
>
> Thanks for all your help in all of this Wade, and I hope you can make those >parts I sent you work on your bike.
>
>Donald James
>JBM Industries
>Kent, Ohio 44240 USA
>www.jbmindustries.com
>330-678-9537
I was disappointed and angry. I didn't reply to him until today, as I didn't want to say anything I might regret later. I didn't post anything here, at XS650.com, or at the XS650 Garage, for the same reason. I had only just posted the announcement for these at both those places Friday night! I did take down the survey yesterday, though, as I didn't want to waste anyone else's time. Here is my reply to Don today:
>Don:
>
>I was floored when i got home yesterday afternoon and read your message. It seems like you have gone to a lot of trouble to abandon the project before the first set got mounted on a bike. I spent a few minutes yesterday afternoon sanding a little rubber off the right socket from the first set you sent, and got the cover to fit. On the short side of the socket. the cover stuck up a little above the rubber surface. I measured the height of the socket at that point, then measured the MikeXS socket. Yours is about 0.025"-0.030" shorter than Mike's at that point. This is probably not a big deal.
>
>I read a post by 'pops' on the XS650 Garage not long after I read your message regarding his conversations with you about sockets for the older (1970->1973) XS650s. I saw that you and he discussed the covers too.
>
>You should consider that the Mike's holders require that the covers be modified to clear the vacuum tubes in order to fit, but nobody has been complaining about that. That is more work (I did it to mine) than a little sanding of rubber.
>
>I got your package yesterday, but after reading your message, didn't see any point in opening it.
>
>I hope you reconsider your decision.
>
>Wade
I got the following reply from him today:
>Wade,
>
> You should not need to modify a part that I sell. I didn't know anything about a cover and when you sent that photo I knew right away that they wouldn't work right, as I really did not worry about the outside of the socket, and in fact made it thicker in many places.
> The owners are convinced they must have the covers, or go to the trouble of making brackets to support the carbs as they think they are too heavy. ( I don't think so, and I bought carburetors of both types off of Ebay so I could see what they are.) The problem is that the customer not only wants, but thinks he needs those covers to prevent cracking of the rubber. They have certainly been told this for many years, and I feel sure that using those soft Chinese sockets with lots of fillers, this is true. I have been all through all this with the airplanes, and while nobody has ever made "covers" that I know of, they have made various brackets, hooks, and springs to try to get the sockets to last. ( The 2 cycle engines we use really shake at idle.) I do think it possible to add extensions and heavy air filters that might overstress a socket, but I don't think it came from the factory like that.
I am glad to hear that you were able to use my sockets on your bike, but bikes with the 34 mm carbs could never get those covers on, unless they had 38 mm covers and modify the sockets like you did. I can't afford to make another mold just for 34 sockets. I only got 2 people interested in them.
My whole thinking was that they would bolt the socket on and use a hose clamp to tighten it on the carburetor, and that by doing this I could make just 2 molds to make right and left, changing a mandrel in the core for different carbs. The mistake was that I just didn't know enough about these motorcycles. It was a lot more complex than I thought.
That is the reason I shelved the project, as I think Mike will try to get improvements to his rubber, and he has good tooling. Anything I make would need to be tested extensively to convince customers of a good product.
>
>Don James
>JBM Industries
>3761 Morley Drive
>Kent, OHIO 44240 USA
>330-678-9537
>www.jbmindustries.com
I have other things to say, just not right now. I apologize for getting everyone's expectations up. I thought that offering him my old carb holders to use as models would help get his project going, and help make a better product. I also thought that creating the survey would give him a better idea of what the potential market would be. We got some good feedback, even though the survey wasn't up very long.
Discuss.
Wade Dunham
...Secondly, is the main problematic feature of the holders degradation of the rubber due to the effect of ethanol fuel, or is it the lack of carb support due to lack of metal sleeves?...TC
I join other early bike owners ('73 TX) in the frustration of not having access to OEM (fit and durability) holders...TC
Hope I'm not further convoluting the issue by asking and trying to recap!TC
Refer to the pictures in post #1 of this thread for an example of this.The main problem is the degradation of the rubber due to the ethanol. Externally, the Mike's holders look fine, but when you look at the inside, they are coming apart. They almost look like they have been mangled with a screwdriver. both with only about 3 months use on them.
Here is another solution from tc bros seems a little expensive but sure would look nice. I just bought the problem carb holders from mikes xs about 2 months ago and havent used them yet but i will until they crack. Thanks for the warning guys I will be watching them.
http://www.tcbroschoppers.com/id37.html